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  • #76
    Originally posted by Boreas View Post
    If the Peacocks were replaced with something smaller than the Becketts would there be an advantage in buying a related design? http://www.stxmarine.net/pdf/PV62-br-web.pdf
    Could well be but only has 10 days endurance (otherwise good contender. PV55 could be good too but slower (25.5 kts) but has 21 day endurance.


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    • #77
      Originally posted by whirlywind
      Foynes is on the west coast, an hour and a half steaming from open water. A two hour road trip from HQ in Haulbowline. It is accessible 24 hours a day for vessels of the NS size. It has ample Fresh Water and Fuel available in port as well as victualing supplies. A secure area in harbour could be available for leasing as a secure pound if required. Logistically, at times, it would make sense for west coast ship replenishment rather than added steaming to Cork Harbour.
      Have you driven to Foynes from Dublin lately? Its a backwater. Haulbowline is on a National route, soon to be linked by motorway to the N8 Cork-Dublin road. WHat would be the advantage? Why lease when we already own a large property that could be developed further? If Foynes was suitable is it not surprising that the British Imperial Navy never considered it worthwhile?

      Do you just not like Cork?
      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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      • #78
        Silly place to put a city.

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        • #79
          There are worse places people have put them.
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by ibenji View Post
            I think the decision to be made here is really about getting rid of the CPV 's. They have not really moved much in the last year due to various reasons. With one decommissioned ship out of 8 in total, no sign of the new arriving any time soon and the cpv's parked up, it would make you wonder why we need 8 in the first place. Can't see why is is acceptable to have such a small number of ships at sea at any one time
            If they are still operable, we should continue using them until their due date for decommissioning. If they are to be replaced I would recommend ships capable of operating independently. Don't go less than 1000 tonnes on a draft of 3.75/4.0 meters. Don't hang up on speed-maybe 20knots with a range around 4500nm. They need range to visit our European neighbors and even further afield. Forget the Shannon estuary,in adverse weather it is a difficult climb out, especially over the bar. They would in effect be no smaller than Aisling but better suited to modern defence systems.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by ibenji View Post
              I am all for the NS getting new ships but these damen ships are fairly ugly. Not as sleek as the current class of ship being delivered. Surely the new drones can venture in where the P60's can't. Bigger is better
              I don't understand why ''ugly'' should be a problem, Corvettes, LST's, most escort carriers, were as ugly as a hangover, didn't effect their usefulness....
              "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
              Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
              Illegitimi non carborundum

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              • #82
                Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                If they are still operable, we should continue using them until their due date for decommissioning. If they are to be replaced I would recommend ships capable of operating independently. Don't go less than 1000 tonnes on a draft of 3.75/4.0 meters. Don't hang up on speed-maybe 20knots with a range around 4500nm. They need range to visit our European neighbors and even further afield. Forget the Shannon estuary,in adverse weather it is a difficult climb out, especially over the bar. They would in effect be no smaller than Aisling but better suited to modern defence systems.
                What ship though.

                There doesn't seem to be one that ticks all the boxes.
                'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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                • #83
                  Don't go less than 1000 tonnes on a draft of 3.75/4.0 meters. Don't hang up on speed-maybe 20knots with a range around 4500nm.
                  SOunds good. Rules out a lot of the usual suspects. No Fassmer OPV . Aussie Cape Class is in there, its an improvement on the Armidale, but similar to the Damen type CPV too. 57.8m LOA, Beam 10m, Draft 3m. 4600nm at 12kn, Max speed 25kn.
                  What about Knud Rasmussen? It has a helipad (on an impossibly short deck). 61m on the waterline. 14.6m Beam. Draft 4.9m. Denmark currently building a third, at US$91m. Ice resistant too, should climate change begin to become a more serious issue.
                  Pug Ugly though.


                  However, what about the Italian Dicotti class, which has been fishing out Refugees from the Med and Adriatic for many years now.
                  53m LOA. 8.1m Beam. 5.4m Draft. 23Kn Max. 2100NM Range at 16kn. Malta soon getting one, when it is fed up with Aoife.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                    If they are still operable, we should continue using them until their due date for decommissioning. If they are to be replaced I would recommend ships capable of operating independently. Don't go less than 1000 tonnes on a draft of 3.75/4.0 meters. Don't hang up on speed-maybe 20knots with a range around 4500nm. They need range to visit our European neighbors and even further afield. Forget the Shannon estuary,in adverse weather it is a difficult climb out, especially over the bar. They would in effect be no smaller than Aisling but better suited to modern defence systems.
                    I'm not suggesting going and replacing them now. They are due to be retired in 2023, allow 5 years for tender & build and it will sneak up very quickly.

                    Even more so considering that Eithne is due to retire in 2019. The NS should be looking at that now and thinking about the plan.

                    For example:
                    Is Eithne to be replaced? With an OPV? Or an EPV?
                    If an EPV, make sure that there is an option so the 2 CPVs could be replaced by a single additional EPV
                    If an OPV, the new contract include options for up to a further 2 (so the CPVs could be replaced either one-for-one or a single OPV

                    If you are looking at up to 4 metre draft there is a fair few smaller ports you won't get into and your limiting where you can go (eg using terrain to mask your presence while awaiting a drug runner). Speed is important (if you want to get out of the weather, catch a vessel trying to get away or respond to a SAR incident) but I would say min 20 kts (but the higher the better).

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                      SOunds good. Rules out a lot of the usual suspects. No Fassmer OPV . Aussie Cape Class is in there, its an improvement on the Armidale, but similar to the Damen type CPV too. 57.8m LOA, Beam 10m, Draft 3m. 4600nm at 12kn, Max speed 25kn.
                      What about Knud Rasmussen? It has a helipad (on an impossibly short deck). 61m on the waterline. 14.6m Beam. Draft 4.9m. Denmark currently building a third, at US$91m. Ice resistant too, should climate change begin to become a more serious issue.
                      Pug Ugly though.


                      However, what about the Italian Dicotti class, which has been fishing out Refugees from the Med and Adriatic for many years now.
                      53m LOA. 8.1m Beam. 5.4m Draft. 23Kn Max. 2100NM Range at 16kn. Malta soon getting one, when it is fed up with Aoife.
                      Wonder how much it would be without the ice strengthening (we could get 1.5 OPVs for that price (but probably more capable))?

                      The draft of the Italian ship is deeper than an existing NS vessel!

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                        Have you driven to Foynes from Dublin lately? Its a backwater. Haulbowline is on a National route, soon to be linked by motorway to the N8 Cork-Dublin road. WHat would be the advantage? Why lease when we already own a large property that could be developed further? If Foynes was suitable is it not surprising that the British Imperial Navy never considered it worthwhile?

                        Do you just not like Cork?
                        Limerick county council is in the process of providing a motorway link from the m20 / m21 to foynes port due to the fact that it is one of three eu designated Euroports in the country. This road will be similar to the pending commencement of the n28 cork to ringaskiddy port due to start early in 2016. This n28 upgrade will result in 3 years of commuter misery for those of us working on haul bowline island. A second base maybe of some short term use

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                          SOunds good. Rules out a lot of the usual suspects. No Fassmer OPV . Aussie Cape Class is in there, its an improvement on the Armidale, but similar to the Damen type CPV too. 57.8m LOA, Beam 10m, Draft 3m. 4600nm at 12kn, Max speed 25kn.
                          What about Knud Rasmussen? It has a helipad (on an impossibly short deck). 61m on the waterline. 14.6m Beam. Draft 4.9m. Denmark currently building a third, at US$91m. Ice resistant too, should climate change begin to become a more serious issue.
                          Pug Ugly though.


                          However, what about the Italian Dicotti class, which has been fishing out Refugees from the Med and Adriatic for many years now.
                          53m LOA. 8.1m Beam. 5.4m Draft. 23Kn Max. 2100NM Range at 16kn. Malta soon getting one, when it is fed up with Aoife.
                          Ironically a basic Flyvefisken (replaced in many roles by Rasmussen) would probably have fulfilled the role nicely...
                          'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by ibenji View Post
                            Limerick county council is in the process of providing a motorway link from the m20 / m21 to foynes port due to the fact that it is one of three eu designated Euroports in the country. This road will be similar to the pending commencement of the n28 cork to ringaskiddy port due to start early in 2016. This n28 upgrade will result in 3 years of commuter misery for those of us working on haul bowline island. A second base maybe of some short term use
                            So you would prefer to move to Foynes while they build a new N28? (New road, not widening current route)
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                              So you would prefer to move to Foynes while they build a new N28? (New road, not widening current route)
                              Just think that a second location maybe of some use. The route for the N28 is on the existing alignment from the south ring road to Shannon park roundabout which is going to make the traffic situation even worse than normal which in itself is really bad. The port of foynes is about to undergo huge expansion to its current docking facilities.

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                              • #90
                                we should just get 2 Arleigh Burke-class destroyers to patrol the atlantic and scare off the bears... would prob need a little bit of work done to haulbowline though and to quadruple the size of the navy!
                                "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                                "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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