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  • Originally posted by WhingeNot View Post
    Just that if Irish NGO's, the government or public at large, wanted the NS to take a more 'robust' part in such missions, or for argument sake, anti-piracy missions, where they may get shot at...take damage, that that is not what the Irish NS ships are really designed for... and would be in danger...

    and IF that is the type of mission of interest, that the Peacock replacements, and the forthcoming lager NS vessel, may have to be more expensive than people expect, and be bigger/heavier, and/or carry more equipment and weapons etc., to be similarly more capable of absorbing damage for example, or alternatively, that people would have to accept that they would be fairly vulnerable (like the rest of the NS vessels) if the extra money is not forthcoming (or just not get involved due to the risk?).

    Similar thoughts for considering any of the other current NS ships for more dangerous missions, arguably, the Peacocks are the last examples of 'fighting' vessels i.e. able to give out AND take abuse (not built to commercial, but military standards)? Deploying the Peacocks say closer to the Libyan coast (if that is what is required),even briefly, could give an opportunity to make this point, and get questions asked re: the direction of all NS ship capabilities, and suitable missions.

    (e.g. didn't a recent NS jaunt to London, that lasted less than a week, get lots of public airtime and have the public raise all sorts of questions)..
    Public do not really care where our ships go. Objections come from the usual bunch of anti West lefty tards

    Comment


    • Originally posted by sofa View Post
      Public do not really care where our ships go. Objections come from the usual bunch of anti West lefty tards
      Public also wouldn't have a clue between Naval and Commercial standards (other than to most likely complain about the cost no matter what it is).

      Comment


      • The lefties want our ships to be knitted by Eritrean refugees or donated by Ghaddafi, depending on which hue of Irish lefties we are talking about. They still didn't stop the Beckett going to London. Public opposition has never, ever been a barrier to military spending. The problem starts and stops in the government and the department.

        To be fair, government management in every sector has been a case of small thinking and minimum effort occasionally punctuated by vanity projects. Then let the private sector or religious orders take up the slack.
        Sending the Samuel Beckett to an arms fair actually fits right in! I'm just waiting for the contract to run the naval service to be put out to tender...
        Last edited by expat01; 19 September 2017, 08:28.

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        • Building to Naval or Commercial Standards ( often Llyod's Rules ) is a choice between functionality underpinned by speed, profile, and equipment fitted to International naval shock Standards OR building a stronger Commercial hull to an agreed Navalised design , supervised by the Insurance Society Chosen, with initial guarantees and fitted with OTS items and Government Furnished Items, such as weapons and FCS. The commercial hull is likely to have a much longer operational life and can be tweaked to improve survivability in matters of Damage Control, and ABCN at owners cost.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
            [...] The commercial hull is likely to have a much longer operational life [...]
            Why? Because most naval shipbuilding is high tensile steel to save weight? The Holland class OPVs are built of thicker mild steel. And i don't think they are built to commercial specs.

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            • The Holland class might be built to an ice rating? (the Irish ferries MV Ulysses is too I think, same as its sister ships all built in Finland..?).

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              • Naval hulls on order often stipulate a life of 15 years, we have used 25 years as a minimum for our ships. The heavier hull steel for some classes of OPV is specified to withstand common small arms fire up to 12.7mm.

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                • This is what the NS were looking to charter (I think just for dive training):
                  Dive Support Vessel Hire
                  For 2 periods of 5-10 days annually (subject to change)
                  Usually required for south coast (including Bantry Bay)
                  Dynamic positions / stern anchor
                  Allow safe operation of SMP Diver LARS & SSDE
                  Crane
                  Operate ROV
                  Support 10-15 diving personnel for up to 10 days up to 60 metres
                  Capable of carrying 2 x TEUs at same time
                  Capable of berthing at Oil Wharf
                  Usual notice min 30 days
                  Crew provided by contractor

                  Comment


                  • Anchor cranker . All of the above.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      This is what the NS were looking to charter (I think just for dive training):
                      Dive Support Vessel Hire
                      For 2 periods of 5-10 days annually (subject to change)
                      Usually required for south coast (including Bantry Bay)
                      Dynamic positions / stern anchor
                      Allow safe operation of SMP Diver LARS & SSDE
                      Crane
                      Operate ROV
                      Support 10-15 diving personnel for up to 10 days up to 60 metres
                      Capable of carrying 2 x TEUs at same time
                      Capable of berthing at Oil Wharf
                      Usual notice min 30 days
                      Crew provided by contractor
                      Coastal Patrol Vessel vs Multi-Role Auxiliary Vessel?

                      Capable of hydrographic operations both in littoral and regional offshore waters, Damen Multi Role Auxiliary Vessel 1600 also has mission modules and cargo.
                      It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                      It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                      It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                      It was the year everything changed.

                      Comment


                      • To be honest, the ILV Granuaile covers most of the criteria too.
                        Last edited by na grohmiti; 24 January 2018, 22:07.
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                        Comment


                        • [QUOTE=CTU;457224]Coastal Patrol Vessel vs Multi-Role Auxiliary Vessel?

                          Read the first 3 lines again

                          Reason why I posted it was the CPV replacement with counter mine capacity could be diving based

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                            Read the first 3 lines again

                            Reason why I posted it was the CPV replacement with counter mine capacity could be diving based
                            And I was suggesting that the CPV replacement dosn't necessarily have to be a CPV, I was thinking along the lines of New Zealand and their proposed Littoral Operations Support Capability vessel.

                            It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                            It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                            It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                            It was the year everything changed.

                            Comment


                            • I notice in the NDP there is no specific mention of the replacement of the CPVs, this is worrying.

                              Given that the waters off our East/South East coast are soon going to be highly contested I would have thought we should be looking at this as a point of urgency. We have the UK leaving the CFP, revoking the 1964 London Fishery Convention and possibly (still the plan) to leave the common market and customs union. All which means that the policing effort will increase dramatically as a result.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CTU View Post
                                And I was suggesting that the CPV replacement dosn't necessarily have to be a CPV, I was thinking along the lines of New Zealand and their proposed Littoral Operations Support Capability vessel.

                                http://www.navy.mil.nz/mtf/fsac/default.htm
                                I would prefer something more like the Saab MCMV-80 or its cousin the Singapore LMV, both can do MCM and patrol and have decent sea going capabilities. Alternatively we could link with the Canadians as they are looking to replace their Kingston class which do a similar role.

                                Comment

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