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View Poll Results: (Realistically) What best to replace the Peacock CPVs with?

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  • Like for like (a similarly capable CPV)

    20 32.26%
  • 1-2 x OPVs (2 defending on available funds)

    39 62.90%
  • Larger number of much less capable patrol craft)

    3 4.84%
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Thread: CPV Replacement

  1. #676
    BQMS EUFighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Since the evolution of the modern OPV each batch or generation of vessel has tended to get bigger to cope with tasks demands. Ireland has it's open Atlantic requiring ships with greater environmental coping capabilities. The consequential increase in size and tonnage adds to additional cost and the need to give the ships a sensible level of self Defence, particularly when operating far from the home country.
    "open Atlantic"???, I know that this is often cited as a reason why ships have got bigger and bigger. SO just out of interest I was wondering what the size was of typical Irish fishing vessels and so check the current register to see and found:

    Length No. of Vessels
    <20m 1834
    20-29m 132
    30-39m 19
    40-49m 9
    50-59m 9
    60-69m 5
    70+ 1

    The largest vessels is the Western Endeavour out of Killybegs, 71m at 1988tonne.
    So looking at a CPV, the 54m of the Flyvefisken class would not be too far wrong (although I wuld prefer a 60-65m vessel to have more capability).

  2. #677
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    "open Atlantic"???, I know that this is often cited as a reason why ships have got bigger and bigger. SO just out of interest I was wondering what the size was of typical Irish fishing vessels and so check the current register to see and found:

    Length No. of Vessels
    <20m 1834
    20-29m 132
    30-39m 19
    40-49m 9
    50-59m 9
    60-69m 5
    70+ 1

    The largest vessels is the Western Endeavour out of Killybegs, 71m at 1988tonne.
    So looking at a CPV, the 54m of the Flyvefisken class would not be too far wrong (although I wuld prefer a 60-65m vessel to have more capability).

    Fishing Vessel are out there to do one thing, fish!.

    Our ships are out there to carry out numerous different tasks incl boarding ops. The bigger and more stable the PV, the higher the sea states they can carry out those tasks in.

    The CPVs role is out to approx 40 miles offshore on some occasions. Other than that its inside Irish Territorial Waters, 12nm.

    The role that the NS & State want the CPV replacements to operation in needs to be defined. This will dictate what size and type of vessel replaces them.

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  4. #678
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    With the living conditions on board the Peacocks, lack of personnel, etc etc

    Maybe the Peacocks should be retired early?

  5. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    With the living conditions on board the Peacocks, lack of personnel, etc etc

    Maybe the Peacocks should be retired early?
    In an ideal world..........
    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
    Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
    Illegitimi non carborundum

  6. #680
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    It is difficult to justify their continued use in the current situation.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  8. #681
    Amadan Orion's Avatar
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    Any use to Malta?

  9. #682
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    With the living conditions on board the Peacocks, lack of personnel, etc etc

    Maybe the Peacocks should be retired early?
    I reckon it should be the case.... as I've said else where the NS should tie up anything that can't go to sea. I reckon the Philipines will pick up on these in a heart beat
    Time for another break I think......

  10. #683
    BQMS EUFighter's Avatar
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    While we do not have the crew we should at least mottball the Peacocks. As for their future we should not make the same mistake as before seeing two which were going into private hands end up in a foreign naval service!

    As for the other user f the class, I think it would be political suicide to sell them to the Philippines given their current President. What could be a more acceptable home would be to donate them to one of the Baltic countries. As only the Lithuanian Navy has anything more than a Minehunter I am sure they would snap them up. Plus it would be good PR within the EU27. Malta would also be another option.

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  12. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    While we do not have the crew we should at least mottball the Peacocks. As for their future we should not make the same mistake as before seeing two which were going into private hands end up in a foreign naval service!

    As for the other user f the class, I think it would be political suicide to sell them to the Philippines given their current President. What could be a more acceptable home would be to donate them to one of the Baltic countries. As only the Lithuanian Navy has anything more than a Minehunter I am sure they would snap them up. Plus it would be good PR within the EU27. Malta would also be another option.
    Yes, they've paid off their modest purchase price many times over, an auction raising a few grand would be a joke. Give them to a deserving country who can get another few years out of them.

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  14. #685
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    As for the other user f the class, I think it would be political suicide to sell them to the Philippines given their current President.
    We never intended Aisling to go to Libya or Emer to end up in Nigeria, once they are sold its really out of our hands.
    Time for another break I think......

  15. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    We never intended Aisling to go to Libya or Emer to end up in Nigeria, once they are sold its really out of our hands.
    That is what all doggy arms dealers say.
    If we cannot ensure that the ships go an end user that we approve then we need to look at other options. There are several options, one could be donation to an friendly EU nation, another could be to sink them as an artifical reef or to use them in a live firing exercise.

  16. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    That is what all doggy arms dealers say.
    If we cannot ensure that the ships go an end user that we approve then we need to look at other options. There are several options, one could be donation to an friendly EU nation, another could be to sink them as an artifical reef or to use them in a live firing exercise.
    Navies and Airforces always arrive at a point of disposing of hardware . If you put sales in the hands of civilians, the new owners will eventually be a nasty surprise, when the refurbishment chain stops. The options are friendly direct disposals, after refurbishment , or update to retain in service , even to the level of new machinery, weaponry ,sea personnel and cadet training , etc. OR ship breakers, if they can be found . Sinking is an option but needs a lot of environmental preparation and risk of objection.

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  18. #688
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    The sale by public auction, however well intended, has always been a farce.
    The donation of Aoife to Malta, while initially unwelcome by some, has proved to be a far more honourable end for ships that served us honourably for decades, and served as temporary homes to generations of Naval personell.
    The breakers yard would have been a premature end for ships which clearly have plenty of life in them.
    Ireland has a large Overseas aid Budget. Much of this money, well intended, through corrupt NGOs has ended up back in the hands of third world despots who use our government donated charity to buy military products.
    Would it not just be better to donate the ships to developing nations whose governments can be trusted, and write the value off to our Overseas aid budget anyway? Go a step further and transfer this amount from the overseas aid fund into the tiny Irish Defence vote for capital expenditure?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  20. #689
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmit� View Post
    .
    ? Go a step further and transfer this amount from the overseas aid fund into the tiny Irish Defence vote for capital expenditure?
    Or give it to the DF for QIP and long term ones while overseas

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  22. #690
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    The NGO industry would go ballistic at not getting their hands on the cash.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  24. #691
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    SINKEX and f*ck the begrudgers
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  26. #692
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Requirements of NSDS Diving Tender (or at least a hired one)
    https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/docmgm...62&DVID=223511

    Dynamic positioning / stern anchor
    Crane (lifting up to 8t on and off vessel)
    Carry up to 15 divers for up to 10 days
    Carry 3/4 TEUs (the LARS unit is bigger than a TEU (3 of the 4 they make fit in a TEU, the dims provided could be when in operation) with the appropriate power.

    Obviously this doesn't include any special counter-mine/counter-IED equipment (although 1 of the containers holds a ROV and SSS)

    But it gives an identication of what would be required from the CPV for the new role (probably a different ROV and maybe less divers etc)
    There’s pics up on the NS’s Facebook page today of the LARS being used on Eithne .... requires a lot of space

  27. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    There’s pics up on the NS’s Facebook page today of the LARS being used on Eithne .... requires a lot of space
    Safety demands everything in it's place, and more crucially a space for everything. The p31 format is suitable, once the flight deck freeboard or height above water is not too restrictive. The CPV as laid out would not suit, so a new type vessel with clear decks aft and DP included , with necessary accommodations for divers/trainee divers, is needed. Perhaps this could all be part of an MRV with large daughter craft for working in shallower water.

  28. #694
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Safety demands everything in it's place, and more crucially a space for everything. The p31 format is suitable, once the flight deck freeboard or height above water is not too restrictive. The CPV as laid out would not suit, so a new type vessel with clear decks aft and DP included , with necessary accommodations for divers/trainee divers, is needed. Perhaps this could all be part of an MRV with large daughter craft for working in shallower water.
    But if we go down the road of providing CPV replacements that have a C-IED capability it will mean space aft is going to be required. That space could be for ROVs and/or diving equipment (including LARS)

  29. #695
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    30 years yesterday.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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