CPV Replacement

[ancientmariner]

Nearly as bad as wikipedia when it comes to Naval matters

Down at the bottom of the Naval History section in military.ie, there is a Naval Fleet Section, a click on NAVAL FLEET will show LE James Joyce listed third from bottom of the List.
We also have a measured mile down off Baltimore/ Cape Clear and as had been said, once off, achieved speeds are rarely demanded during normal routine service. It must be understood that a ship's operational deadweight is a lot heavier than that used during trials. All weight added is paid for by a reduction in speed or more horses from the machinery.

Setanta did, and her modern sister still attends to buoys, renewing moorings using ship type anchor cables, installing batteries, touching up paintwork etc. They also attend Island lighthouses to top up oil and drinking water. The helicopter does sorties to transfer personnel in and out on short term maintenance missions.
Setanta's hold was empty in my time, and 400 tons couldn't be replaced by liquids such as seawater. We should have tried solid ballast as increased draft would have helped to keep the propeller in the water. There was reluctance to put junk in the ship.
I know this stuff doesn't belong in this thread but history is fun.

[na grohmiti]

Down at the bottom of the Naval History section in military.ie, there is a Naval Fleet Section, a click on NAVAL FLEET will show LE James Joyce listed third from bottom of the List.
We also have a measured mile down off Baltimore/ Cape Clear and as had been said, once off, achieved speeds are rarely demanded during normal routine service. It must be understood that a ship's operational deadweight is a lot heavier than that used during trials. All weight added is paid for by a reduction in speed or more horses from the machinery.

Setanta did, and her modern sister still attends to buoys, renewing moorings using ship type anchor cables, installing batteries, touching up paintwork etc. They also attend Island lighthouses to top up oil and drinking water. The helicopter does sorties to transfer personnel in and out on short term maintenance missions.
Setanta's hold was empty in my time, and 400 tons couldn't be replaced by liquids such as seawater. We should have tried solid ballast as increased draft would have helped to keep the propeller in the water. There was reluctance to put junk in the ship.
I know this stuff doesn't belong in this thread but history is fun.

You really need to write a book. I'm serious. Stoker Brady got two published about his short time in the NS, and the second book was mostly about how the Ladies of the night in Cork conned him out of his bicycle or some such.
You have some far more interesting stories that many would love to hear. You shouldn't confine them to us select few.

[hptmurphy]

LEADING Stoker Brady got two published about his short time in the NS,

Fixed that for you. We don't need another Brady type expose on the NS. His second book was a very tenuous link to the NS, his first was but a rant against long retired and even deceased NCO's and officers.

It would be nice from a seafaring , and historical view point, but leave out the sessions and the whoring.

[Graylion]

I vote for the Damen 1800 and yes, ugly. but so what? seakeeping matter a a lot more.

http://products.damen.com/en/ranges/offshore-patrol-vessel/offshore-patrol-vessel-1800-sea-axe

Draught is 4 m

[DeV]

I vote for the Damen 1800 and yes, ugly. but so what? seakeeping matter a a lot more.

http://products.damen.com/en/ranges/offshore-patrol-vessel/offshore-patrol-vessel-1800-sea-axe

Draught is 4 m

Except being OPV sized, it will OPV priced

[ancientmariner]

Brochure Naval Choices

Except being OPV sized, it will OPV priced

.

We now have two almost 80m vessels and four 90m vessels ( one on order). We need to upgrade those vessels to give them an improved Defensive umbrella. The Damen vessels are striving to establish a market and are not tested in the innovative parts of their design eg. boat launching and recovery procedures and the opening door(S) on or near the ships unlisted waterline.
The P51,P52, could be regarded as eventually replacing the CPV hulls, while the 90metre fleet will be the potentially worldwide workhorses. Our needs then are two more OPV's with large flight decks and some element of supporting military/humanitarian missions, coupled with an MRV type vessel to act as Flag and Fleet Command Vessel with enhanced mission capabilities. That mix would give us a 9 ship Navy, within which the planners must include all the Defence elements required in a sea environment.

[expat01]

.

We now have two almost 80m vessels and four 90m vessels ( one on order). We need to upgrade those vessels to give them an improved Defensive umbrella. The Damen vessels are striving to establish a market and are not tested in the innovative parts of their design eg. boat launching and recovery procedures and the opening door(S) on or near the ships unlisted waterline.
The P51,P52, could be regarded as eventually replacing the CPV hulls, while the 90metre fleet will be the potentially worldwide workhorses. Our needs then are two more OPV's with large flight decks and some element of supporting military/humanitarian missions, coupled with an MRV type vessel to act as Flag and Fleet Command Vessel with enhanced mission capabilities. That mix would give us a 9 ship Navy, within which the planners must include all the Defence elements required in a sea environment.

In other words, two corvette class and a frigate class.

[ancientmariner]

In other words, two corvette class and a frigate class.

.

Corvettes are typically, in modern terms, a fourth class ,fast fighting vessel, up to 30kts plus. I would prefer an enhanced OPV, at 24kts, with all round defence either fitted or bolted on. As regards the frigate class, I was thinking more along an Absalon class vessel, also capable of logistic work.

[hptmurphy]

Would get too keen on Damen products as their products are not up to standard.

Most recent falling being the Karl Doorman on a joint op with the Germans has had to be returned to the builds after a catastrophic power failure that will take up to 8 months to replace. Hope she is still in warranty.

[Sparky42]

Would get too keen on Damen products as their products are not up to standard.

Most recent falling being the Karl Doorman on a joint op with the Germans has had to be returned to the builds after a catastrophic power failure that will take up to 8 months to replace. Hope she is still in warranty.

It's not like they are alone with build issues, ie Type 45, Collins class, U class, the LCS, the San Antonio class just to name a few.

[Medsailor]

Would get too keen on Damen products as their products are not up to standard.

Most recent falling being the Karl Doorman on a joint op with the Germans has had to be returned to the builds after a catastrophic power failure that will take up to 8 months to replace. Hope she is still in warranty.

While having my own views on what Damen can deliver, it's important to point out that Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding are not the same Damen who offer a wide range of patrol vessels. The former builds solely full MilSpec warships, the latter builds everything from pilot boats through inshore patrol craft (and Sea Shepherds new ship) to large OPVs while implementing anything from pure commercial through coastguard to piecemeal MilSpec standards. There is obviously a hefty difference in price too.

[hptmurphy]

Collins class were flawed from day one and are up for replacement with a french type being chosen. Type 45 as mentioned elsewhere will take time and money but need to get sorted before carriers come on stream.

5he difference being all the come from different builders who only build for a single customer nominally the home counties navy. DAMEN are an international comercial operation who can't afford to have such high profile projects come undone so early in their carreers

[Sparky42]

Collins class were flawed from day one and are up for replacement with a french type being chosen. Type 45 as mentioned elsewhere will take time and money but need to get sorted before carriers come on stream.

5he difference being all the come from different builders who only build for a single customer nominally the home counties navy. DAMEN are an international comercial operation who can't afford to have such high profile projects come undone so early in their carreers

Most of those examples are built by firms that handle multiple nations ie Austral, BAE, I don't really see the difference between them going wrong for some navies and this going wrong for the Dutch tbh.

[hptmurphy]

If Ireland had to go overseas to look for builders r must be aware if the failures of sane in their recent projects.

The Collins saga has been going on for many years and is not entirety down to the builders. The Type 45 again the problems are related to The power plant supplier and the Royal navy involved in the build.

Indeed Ireland has had problems with Babcock as was shown from one with the P50s and their associated problems.
So to that end to offer Damen products which are largely untested and whose existing products are problematic would be sheet fallacy.

[Jetjock]

The Collins case is very much historic at this point given their replacements will be taking shape in the near future. The T45 suffer a similar problem to many British products- a single country bespoke design that will never be replicated with exports because a government bent over backwards to accommodate local suppliers rather than incorporate proven systems. The failure of Nimrod Mk2 was due to similar issues.
There are practically no global shipbuilding projects that don't suffer from problems.
How can we advocate avoiding a single shipbuilder when that shipbuilder might be the only one with a suitable offering?
Remember the major problems with P62? (Subcontractor or not). Did that stop the subsequent ordering of P63 or P64?
The answer is not in avoiding a particular company with a reputation hardly worse than any of the competition. The answer is in sufficiently stringent and punitive contracts.