Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

CPV Replacement

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I have a sneaking suspicion that financing played a major part in the remaining with Appledore.

    But if the product comes right well and good.

    It would appear that as an Air Defence platform the type 45s will be top class once their propulsion problems are solved but ghey are severely limited to just that role with th their weapons fit in comparison to Arleigh Burke.
    The Collins class should have been good for another 10 years even after the refit carried out in the pat few years but it would seem the RAN is going through huge transition across the board so the change will be saving in the long run.

    Why are posters so hung on Damen and other off the shelf products and not looking to the likes if the Spanish to build custom designed vessels after all they have supplied some lovely OPVS and frigates and are building the Australian next generation vessels
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

    Comment


    • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
      I have a sneaking suspicion that financing played a major part in the remaining with Appledore.

      But if the product comes right well and good.

      It would appear that as an Air Defence platform the type 45s will be top class once their propulsion problems are solved but ghey are severely limited to just that role with th their weapons fit in comparison to Arleigh Burke.
      The Collins class should have been good for another 10 years even after the refit carried out in the pat few years but it would seem the RAN is going through huge transition across the board so the change will be saving in the long run.

      Why are posters so hung on Damen and other off the shelf products and not looking to the likes if the Spanish to build custom designed vessels after all they have supplied some lovely OPVS and frigates and are building the Australian next generation vessels
      It's probably cyclical, a few years ago on here, the MEKO was all the rage, now, because the Damen crossover has featured in a few Press Releases, it has become flavour of the quarter.

      Agree on the Spanish though, that BAM for example is a beautiful ship and seems to be customiseable for many roles, OPV/Corvette/Light frigate etc.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Herald View Post
        It's probably cyclical, a few years ago on here, the MEKO was all the rage, now, because the Damen crossover has featured in a few Press Releases, it has become flavour of the quarter.

        Agree on the Spanish though, that BAM for example is a beautiful ship and seems to be customiseable for many roles, OPV/Corvette/Light frigate etc.
        I get the point. I do like the Damen Crossovers though since this is a trend that has been going on in the last few years - see also the Kalaat Béni Abbès. Basically I see it as an option to sneak something more capable in the back door. Hence my idea of a better radar, CMS and the VLS for Sea Ceptor and VL Spear 3.

        Comment


        • To some extent the P20 was a step into the unknown, defects became apparent, remedies were administered and she "rolled on" for her intended service life.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by danno View Post
            To some extent the P20 was a step into the unknown, defects became apparent, remedies were administered and she "rolled on" for her intended service life.
            At the time the Deirdre was the only game in town and some of the defects were never rectified but they were design faults nit major equipment failures which seem to be plaguing so of the most prominent navies at the moment.

            WE Learned from each build on from Deirdre and incorporated the improvements into each new vessel so much so that machinery wise internal layout weapons and boats fits and length and height meant that Deirdre was actually a significantly different ship to those that followed.
            Aoifes and Aislings longevity is testament to this.

            This is a huge difference to building a class of ships and not improving the faults found during service in earlier vessels.

            In the case of the type 45 space was set aside for an anti ship missile system yet to be developed and the upgrade budget had had to be spent on refitting power plants.

            The Harpoon which it had fitted and is been with drawn due to multipleissues including its age been in service 30 years.

            So to a certain degree the already troubled vessels have been hamstrung by politicians and won't reach their full potential until at least 2020 which means it should be in place and capable of being what it was designed for the protective level for the new carriers.

            But the RN still won't have any new Frigates of any type in service as they have yet to decide what they want.

            However if they bought from the shelf say from France or Spanish they would have two very fibe types at the drop of a hat.

            Did I mention poseidons range issues...now compounded by the fact of being an American build straight off the shelf. ..is not compatible with the RAF airborne takers they being of an airbus build ......so Poseidon will require major modification before it can enter service.
            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

            Comment


            • The P8 can't be refuelled by Voyager either

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                The P8 can't be refuelled by Voyager either
                Well, a refit (no doubt expensive) with a boom system like the Australian's would solve that issue for the Voyager's, though why the RAF didn't go for that in the first place is beyond me (guessing costs)
                Last edited by Sparky42; 2 August 2016, 17:40.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                  Well, a refit (no doubt expensive) with a boom system like the Australian's would solve that issue for the Voyager's, though why the RAF didn't go for that in the first place is beyond me (guessing costs)
                  not quite - when the contract with AT was being written up, aircraft requiring boom tanking were a small part of the RAF's fleet - the original four leased C-17's - everything else was a P/D receiver: C-130, Nimrod, E-3D and all the fighters.

                  now, and in circumstances that are entirely unforseable from when that contract was written up, boom tanking is a big part of the fleet - C-17, RIVET JOINT, P-8, whatever replaces Sentinel..

                  a boom tanking capability is firmly on the 'need' list at the highest level of the MOD - indeed the current Chancellor, Philip Hammond, looked at binning the AT contract and aquiring boom tanking when he was at MOD in the last parliament. it is a known need, and its probable that in order to solve it we'll just amend the AT contract to provide boom tankers as well, but we have lots of other needs as well, and sadly even we have to prioritise spending - and at the moment the RN is at the top of the list.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                    The P8 can't be refuelled by Voyager either
                    Poesidon is the P8 MPA...!
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                    Comment


                    • Maritime Patrol Aircraft are legitimaly part of that need and with nine Poesidon P8 MPA s on order and thir limited range this needs to be adress as the RN is extremely limited in ASW assets. Getting stretched to thin all round which given T45 predominantly AD role the next frigate class needs to specialise in ASW to at least balance any carrier battle group.
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                        ...so Poseidon will require major modification before it can enter service.
                        just to clarify - the RAF will never again retro-fit a AAR capability to an aircraft. P-8 will not get P/D even if Boeing agreed to it - which they wouldn't. if an AAR capability for the P-8 is to come about, it will come from from RAF tankers fiitted with booms.

                        boom tanking for the RAF makes sense now in a way it never did before - all our big strategic aircraft take boom fuel, and in the kind of quantities that even if they were P/D equipped, just wouldn't be feasible.

                        Comment


                        • Probably makes sense to give Voyager the additional capacity to have a boom if that is the way the RAF want to go? Are Marshalls in Cambridge still in the conversion business?
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                          Comment


                          • It would be a straight from Airbus job - the Australian MRTT A330 has a boom, we'd just get AirTanker to buy off the shelf.

                            I think the attractiveness of conversion has long since worn off, not least because the cost of the conversion and the regulatory framework surrounding it would cost more than just buying new ones.

                            The AH-64D-E changeover is illustrative - its cheaper and quicker to buy new rather than **** about changing airframes, engines and systems...

                            Comment


                            • Naval service ships

                              Originally posted by danno View Post
                              To some extent the P20 was a step into the unknown, defects became apparent, remedies were administered and she "rolled on" for her intended service life.
                              History of our Service. Many things happen perchance with " any bread being better than no loaf ". We need from now, to only continue as planned by Naval Officers with advisory inputs from users at every level. Equipments must be selected to produce a required Naval capability not just because it is cheap but because it makes the ship more potent in it's role. I watched a CPV shoot the other day and thought how brave, considering that a burst of 20 rounds can cause a 76mm gun mount (Compact ) to self destruct. Our next weapons should meet the standards the Italians and others have set for themselves, in faster loading mechanisms , smart ammunition, target engagement accuracy, and missile destruction. We need urgently to move beyond pre-1980 technology and move to here!!.

                              Comment


                              • Would you believe that there were some in NHQ who wanted the latest batch of OPVs armed with the same weapons as the P20s were? That is what we are up against.
                                For the reasons you give, there was a school of thought that considered the L70 Bofors 40mm a safer (less maintainance intensive) option.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X