A 1 Bde army?

[Auldsod]

doesn't stop the BA



I would go a Bde with:
min 3 (max 4) infantry battalions (each with 1 APC mounted coy)
a Arty Regt (with 4 light gun batteries)
a Cav Sqn

Pretty much what I was thinking. I really can't understand why the wouldn't rationalise the army towards a structure like that. Surely it's not just to keep staff and command jobs there for the boys? We have artillery regiments that are battery sized and would be commanded by a Captain with 4-5 years experience (or less) in the US army!

[Auldsod]

US Stryker Brigade Combat team consists of 4,500 soldiers and 300 Stryker vehicles and is commanded by a COL.

The Irish ORBAT hasn't a leg to stand on.

Just need a billion or two and we'd be away

[Bam Bam]

13 generals for 13,000, I Think its more for career progression than military need.

[Auldsod]

That's my thinking. You would need a very brave COS who manages to get the buy in of government and other senior officers whilst also being prepared to deal with a never ending hatred from the all the middle ranking officers trying to climb the greasy pole and RACO. Would be good for the army though but that may be a secondary consideration!

[andy]

So what would a 1 Bde army look like

It wouldn't look that good, we should go back to a 3 brigade army. The Army is tiny as it is.

[ropebag]

It wouldn't look that good, we should go back to a 3 brigade army. The Army is tiny as it is.

and equip it with what?

the old 3 Bde Army was no more combat effective than the current 2 Bde Army, and infact probably even less so given that there would be 3 mouths to feed with fcukall instead of two mouths to feed with fcukall. more squabbling, less doing.

there is absolutely no point whatsoever employing a soldier unless you can equip him with everything from clothing, mobility and artillery support, and then support him in the field in the face of hostile action. given the cost implications of moving to that standard with just the current manning figures, talk of taking the field force to three times its current size is just laughable nonsense.

personally i see the future as being one Bde+ warfighting formation, and a support formation doing the training, admin and public duties/ATCP.

[morpheus]

It wouldn't look that good, we should go back to a 3 brigade army. The Army is tiny as it is.

Currently DF strength (if at capacity) is 9500
Of that 7500 are Army
about 1150 are Navy
and 850 are Air Corps
the current 2 brigade structure is still under staffed (privates and corporals)
its under equipped (not enough APCs or trucks or support weapons, artillery or ISTAR or modern functioning air defence equipment)
Now in the western world modern militaries, 1 brigade SHOULD be 3200 personnel
so saying you want to go to 3 brigades would suggest you need to increase by 2000 army personnel to have the 3 brigades 9600 army soldiers
thats BEFORE you count the navy or air corps personnel which is another 2000.

You would therefore need to increase overall to at least 11600 to fully staff 3 brigades, a naval service AND an air corps....

the requirement for the front line and the support equipment required to FULLY EQUIP the cavalry units, the infantry Bns, the transport units, the artillery units (includes air defence), the medic corps, etc is over stretched in even the CURRENT 2 brigade structure.

This is before you now recruit more troops to create the 3rd Brigade and then you need to go and purchase multiples of ALL of the above to kit out this new 3rd brigade, unless you suggest diluting the small amount of gear we have even further?

we should need somewhere to sensibly house all of these units and their equipment beside them to mean soldiers in cork wouldnt have to drive to the curragh to get into their units mowags because thats where theyre stored - so that they can be pooled and shared between the 2 current brigades.

All of this before you purchase new aircraft, new vessels, create a naval air wing, buy new radar equipment, replace existing naval vessels coming to end of life, etc.

You need to go back and rethink this

You need to understand, DF spending should be closer to 2% GDP than the current 0.4%

Forget the 3 brigades, fully equip the forces we HAVE and THEN begin building capacity.

[na grohmiti]

The real question you need to ask, in a country with only one short land frontier to a friendly state, why is the Defence Force Army biased? Surely having a naval infantry/marine force in support of a Naval fleet backed up with an air wing actually capable of patrolling, not to mention defending the airspace should be the priority?

The Fantasian forces have already arrived. They didn't parachute in, they didn't walk in. They came by sea and by air, unloading at our many airfields and ports, while our army watched our land frontier.

[SwiftandSure]

Equip the man, don't man the equipment.

If we can only afford toys for 1 Bde, then that's what we should have.

[DeV]

there is absolutely no point whatsoever employing a soldier unless you can equip him with everything from clothing, mobility and artillery support, and then support him in the field in the face of hostile action. given the cost implications of moving to that standard with just the current manning figures, talk of taking the field force to three times its current size is just laughable nonsense.

while I agree it depends on what you want him to do, how likely he is to deploy and how much it will cost

personally i see the future as being one Bde+ warfighting formation, and a support formation doing the training, admin and public duties/ATCP.

which would lead to the public (quite rightly) asking why are we maintaining 2 army (one of which will never be used)

its under equipped (not enough .... artillery

with the 105/120 combo we actually have too much arty now

Now in the western world modern militaries, 1 brigade SHOULD be 3200 personnel

+1

we should need somewhere to sensibly house all of these units and their equipment beside them to mean soldiers in cork wouldnt have to drive to the curragh to get into their units mowags because thats where theyre stored - so that they can be pooled and shared between the 2 current brigades.

not usually in the UK with WFM

Forget the 3 brigades, fully equip the forces we HAVE and THEN begin building capacity.

+1

[DeV]

The real question you need to ask, in a country with only one short land frontier to a friendly state, why is the Defence Force Army biased? Surely having a naval infantry/marine force in support of a Naval fleet backed up with an air wing actually capable of patrolling, not to mention defending the airspace should be the priority?

The Fantasian forces have already arrived. They didn't parachute in, they didn't walk in. They came by sea and by air, unloading at our many airfields and ports, while our army watched our land frontier.

Internal security plain and simple

[Flamingo]

Internal security plain and simple

Create a Gendarmerie type force, which would have LOTS of uses, and training of which would be more relevant to an ATCP role...

[na grohmiti]

Internal security plain and simple

Not what an army is for. That's a police job. Army don't make good police in the same way as police do not make a good army.
To justify a defence force that is army biased in this way just means your police force, your border control and your customs agency is not fit for purpose.

[HavocIRL]

Not what an army is for. That's a police job. Army don't make good police in the same way as police do not make a good army.
To justify a defence force that is army biased in this way just means your police force, your border control and your customs agency is not fit for purpose.

No they are competent but unlike most countries, since the foundation of the Irish state the police and Defence forces have had to focus on the threat from groups within the state. So saying internal security is quite accurate. The police, border control and customs agencies are fit for purpose however they occasionally need support in the form of ATCP.

[gibedepusib0ss]

You don't need more artillery until you can fully integrate it with the bods in the sky and the grunts on the ground. Actually, the arty pieces are more than sufficient considering the lack of a decent arty range.