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  1. #1
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Irish Society of Military Medicine

    The AMC are trying to get a specialist training programme off the ground, looks like they are making headway

    http://ismm.ie

    http://www.medicalcouncil.ie/Educati...isclipine-.pdf

    They are looking at commissioning 4 people annually into the RDF for 2 years (who will complete 2 weeks FTT while doing NCHD rotations) and then 3 years on a PDF commission (when they will do 7 weeks mil training). They will then complete at least 3 years in the PDF.


    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...p/t-13070.html
    Last edited by DeV; 9th August 2015 at 18:40.

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  3. #2
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    This would arguably be a bigger step, if approved. Would also mean an increase in the number of available MOs. Would also mean a cycling of fresh talent with up to date training ground through the Corps.
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  8. #5
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    It would be only targeting 2 new MOs????

    So courses are going to run with just 2 personnel on them. Should have gone min 5

  9. #6
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    It would be only targeting 2 new MOs????

    So courses are going to run with just 2 personnel on them. Should have gone min 5
    Oops. Didn't see that bit...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    These guys have an interesting website . Was checking out the news section http://www.ismm.ie/news.html and i see that the Medical Corps have delivered a GP training scheme , even if the intake seems small at only 2 . Looks like the DF is getting their act together.

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audax View Post
    These guys have an interesting website . Was checking out the news section http://www.ismm.ie/news.html and i see that the Medical Corps have delivered a GP training scheme , even if the intake seems small at only 2 . Looks like the DF is getting their act together.
    TBH it is a bit wasteful IMHO.

    We are so far understrength for MOs it is extremely dangerous. When they are running the programme more or less the same resources will more of less be tied up on 2 students as 5 (eg the lesson will still need an instructor). The programme of course could potentially be there being not enough existing MOs to supervise the 5 students.

    But it's the first time it's ever been done in fairness.

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    Oops. Didn't see that bit...
    It's also a 5 year programme (normal GP is 4 years) with little interaction with the DF in the first 2 years (seconded to and paid by HSE) (in fairness it's probably the only way around it, the DF is too small).

    After the 5 years they have to give 3 years return for service.

  17. #12
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    Including med school it is 10 years+.

  18. #13
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Including med school it is 10 years+.
    Yes but I'm only talking about the training to become a GP

  19. #14
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    It would be nice to see DF involvement in this kind of thing

    http://emergencytimes.com/medical-st...ls-at-simwars/

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  21. #15
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    It depends on the ability to fully handle the ongoing problems of Hypoxemia and acidosis even after apparent CPR recovery. Sometimes 100% oxygen needs to be delivered with other medical procedures such as intubation. Depending on water temperature during immersion Core temperature remains a consideration for up to 48 hours. Having aid on a ship, say 50miles away, is probably a two hour waiting period. Caring for 70 crew for 10/12 weeks plus dealing with traumatised casualties presenting with post drowning symptoms and other mass problems needs a just in case philosophy. Keep away from the HSE. DOD should recruit a panel of willing temporary MD's for mission only appointments.
    Trauma qualified doctors don't exist outside of hospitals. The DF don't have the doctors and the problem with doctors is that they won't work without all their supports in place. This would take at leasts a consultant and a team to run both shore and ship side. Not a runner.
    Just visiting

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  23. #16
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    If they wanted to do it, the DF would need.....
    An international level hospital
    Porters
    General healthcare workers
    Admin staff
    Maintenance staff
    Nurses
    Paramedics
    Advanced paramedics
    Doctors
    SHO's
    Registrars
    Consultants
    Researchers
    Aviation (HEMS)
    Ambulance service

    Then there could be schools for specialist role medicine takes within units on the ground etc

    Ive not mentioned the myriad of other departments in a hospital, radiographers, phlebotomy etc.... but you get the idea

    Maybe an affiliation with a national hospital into which we could send staff to train etc... we would need retainers to match or at least close the gap in civi pay with a structured career ladder...

    Im sure ive left huge items out, best bet would be set up of a national military hospital open to the public but with majority military personnel serving and running it.
    it will cost massive money and will never happen.

    But if it did - and if it worked - it would be a brilliant thing to see.
    Last edited by morpheus; 29th June 2017 at 15:12.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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  25. #18
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    hmmmm i stand corrected on the pay scales for an SHO. however - that still does not take away from the fact that currently medical personnel do not see enough nor the variety of cases that their civi equivalent will in a hospital and THAT is the point that needs to be addressed. i still think that a quasi civi military hospital setup would be beneficial to all.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  26. #19
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    hmmmm i stand corrected on the pay scales for an SHO. however - that still does not take away from the fact that currently medical personnel do not see enough nor the variety of cases that their civi equivalent will in a hospital and THAT is the point that needs to be addressed. i still think that a quasi civi military hospital setup would be beneficial to all.
    On the contrary the DF do not have enough unique situations in day to day running that they require anything other what the normal general hospitals provide.. Most military posts are in proximity to a general acute hospital and the DF have equal access to these services already.

    Im sure ive left huge items out, best bet would be set up of a national military hospital open to the public but with majority military personnel serving and running it.
    it will cost massive money and will never happen.
    We can't get agreement on a national childrens hospital..how do you think a military hospital goes down.!!! Too much duplication and unless it was a private entity how do you staff it and pay for it.

    Not a runner.
    Just visiting

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  28. #20
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Some setup that results in building up of a miltiary medical staff that live and work mostly in a civi hospital at least for a period of time. there arent , as you said, enough opportunities in the military spectrum to keep doctors up to date or working as much as a civi counterpart
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  29. #21
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The CMU is in a very unfortunate position with the MO strength.

    It kind of chicken and egg. Can't release them to maintain skills due to insufficient strength and can't retain them due to insufficient skills maintenance. Fortunately, the vast majority of what a MO will be asked to treat (including overseas) is what a GP will see in their surgery, however we do need other specialties apart from GPs.

    My solution?
    - reduce the amount of administrative medicals required
    - increase the MO establishment
    - actively recruit MOs to the RDF
    - more or less close Bricins
    - Upskill all MOs in pre hospital care
    - MOs do a monthly (more often if possible) hospital rotation in a major hospital close to their CMU
    - MOs to be available on call to National Ambulance Service (in the same way as the rapid response doctors you often see)


    The CMU could be likened to the small A&Es closing. It was found that many were unsafe due to the low patient numbers and therefore low skills retention
    Last edited by DeV; 30th June 2017 at 20:15.

  30. #22
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    hmmmm i stand corrected on the pay scales for an SHO. however - that still does not take away from the fact that currently medical personnel do not see enough nor the variety of cases that their civi equivalent will in a hospital and THAT is the point that needs to be addressed. I still think that a quasi civi military hospital setup would be beneficial to all
    Would agree with this - some kind of co-location with one of the existing hospitals in Dublin, with similar, smaller scale co-locations in other areas of the country (e.g. Cork, Limerick, Galway)
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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  32. #23
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    Would agree with this - some kind of co-location with one of the existing hospitals in Dublin, with similar, smaller scale co-locations in other areas of the country (e.g. Cork, Limerick, Galway)
    To be honest there isn't the demand. Better quality service, better outcomes, more efficient and better VFM to embed within public hospitals

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  34. #24
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    2 new MOs commissioned yesterday according to the website- or i should say that they will be Medical Officers in 2 years time all going well. A step in the right direction though.

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  36. #25
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audax View Post
    2 new MOs commissioned yesterday according to the website- or i should say that they will be Medical Officers in 2 years time all going well. A step in the right direction though.
    As you said they are being commissioned as MOs, they won't be qualified as Specialists in Military Medicine (and GPS) for 5 years

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