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  1. #26
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The closing date for the 2nd batch on the training scheme is 8 December

  2. #27
    CQMS spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    If they wanted to do it, the DF would need.....
    An international level hospital
    Porters
    General healthcare workers
    Admin staff
    Maintenance staff
    Nurses
    Paramedics
    Advanced paramedics
    Doctors
    SHO's
    Registrars
    Consultants
    Researchers
    Aviation (HEMS)
    Ambulance service

    Then there could be schools for specialist role medicine takes within units on the ground etc

    Ive not mentioned the myriad of other departments in a hospital, radiographers, phlebotomy etc.... but you get the idea

    Maybe an affiliation with a national hospital into which we could send staff to train etc... we would need retainers to match or at least close the gap in civi pay with a structured career ladder...

    Im sure ive left huge items out, best bet would be set up of a national military hospital open to the public but with majority military personnel serving and running it.
    it will cost massive money and will never happen.

    But if it did - and if it worked - it would be a brilliant thing to see.
    I'm not sure how the RDF works ie terms and conditions etc...the model used by the UK AMS is to recruit and retain a cohort of medics via the Army Reserve and trickle them in and out of deployments...so during Telic / Herrick days trauma surgeons etc with reservist liabilities were mobilised I believe for 3 month deployments. That benefited the NHS in that their medics were exposed to new procedures at the cutting edge of medicine...whilst the Army had an additional pool of highly qualified people to use.

    Notionally they are organised into Field Hospitals...I'm unsure if they could roll out the door right nowRoad as a hospital and set themselves up in the field but I believe that's the aspiration...Rod and Serpent if he's still around may be able to comment...

    http://www.army.mod.uk/medical-services/29929.aspx

    Is this a model used by the Defence Forces...or could it be?
    'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

  3. #28
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    I'm not sure how the RDF works ie terms and conditions etc...the model used by the UK AMS is to recruit and retain a cohort of medics via the Army Reserve and trickle them in and out of deployments...so during Telic / Herrick days trauma surgeons etc with reservist liabilities were mobilised I believe for 3 month deployments. That benefited the NHS in that their medics were exposed to new procedures at the cutting edge of medicine...whilst the Army had an additional pool of highly qualified people to use.

    Notionally they are organised into Field Hospitals...I'm unsure if they could roll out the door right nowRoad as a hospital and set themselves up in the field but I believe that's the aspiration...Rod and Serpent if he's still around may be able to comment...

    http://www.army.mod.uk/medical-services/29929.aspx

    Is this a model used by the Defence Forces...or could it be?
    Far from it, RDF medics were cut drastically around 2013

    The DF isn’t great at recognising external qualifications.

    Having said that AFAIK a DE RDF officer was commissioned about 2 years ago. I think he is a clinical psychologist.

    Not sure how it would go down with those in the medical profession. They are over worked and underpaid as is

  4. #29
    CQMS spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Far from it, RDF medics were cut drastically around 2013

    The DF isn’t great at recognising external qualifications.

    Having said that AFAIK a DE RDF officer was commissioned about 2 years ago. I think he is a clinical psychologist.

    Not sure how it would go down with those in the medical profession. They are over worked and underpaid as is
    That's a pity Dev it's quite a big thing in NHS circles to be a military reservist.

    The question is would the DF be better to invest their RDF budget in generating a capability like a field hospital...and chopping some other areas of the orbat. Make it an attractive thing to do.

    Our regular nurses, surgeons etc work in one of I believe five NHS hospitals...in uniform...when not deployed. Big one is QEH Birmingham.
    'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

  5. #30
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    I'm not sure how the RDF works ie terms and conditions etc...the model used by the UK AMS is to recruit and retain a cohort of medics via the Army Reserve and trickle them in and out of deployments...so during Telic / Herrick days trauma surgeons etc with reservist liabilities were mobilised I believe for 3 month deployments. That benefited the NHS in that their medics were exposed to new procedures at the cutting edge of medicine...whilst the Army had an additional pool of highly qualified people to use.

    Notionally they are organised into Field Hospitals...I'm unsure if they could roll out the door right nowRoad as a hospital and set themselves up in the field but I believe that's the aspiration...Rod and Serpent if he's still around may be able to comment...

    http://www.army.mod.uk/medical-services/29929.aspx




    Is this a model used by the Defence Forces...or could it be?
    Yep... was present at a talk delivered by a then TA (now Army Reserve) Colonel a couple of years back. He was part of a visiting group of TA officers from NI. Said officer was a GP in civvy land, in the Medical Corps militarily. Fascinating talk. Said he was did 3 tours of Afghanistan, first one compulsorily mobbed, volunteered for the other two

    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Far from it, RDF medics were cut drastically around 2013

    The DF isn’t great at recognising external qualifications.

    Having said that AFAIK a DE RDF officer was commissioned about 2 years ago. I think he is a clinical psychologist.

    Not sure how it would go down with those in the medical profession. They are over worked and underpaid as is
    Said RDF officer has co authored an article in this month's An Cosantóir

    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    That's a pity Dev it's quite a big thing in NHS circles to be a military reservist.

    The question is would the DF be better to invest their RDF budget in generating a capability like a field hospital...and chopping some other areas of the orbat. Make it an attractive thing to do.

    Our regular nurses, surgeons etc work in one of I believe five NHS hospitals...in uniform...when not deployed. Big one is QEH Birmingham.
    Presuming that's Selly Oak? Lot of the serious wounded end up there I believe...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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  7. #31
    CQMS spider's Avatar
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    Selly Oaks closed now they consolidated a number of hospitals in a super-site new build (QEH).

    The military moved in there too. Great place was in it two weeks ago.

    I honestly doubt the British Army could function without its reservist GPs etc...they get trawled quite a bit for overseas stuff.
    'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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  9. #32
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Have a look at this
    http://www.defence.ie/website.nsf/fba727373c93a4f080256c53004d976e/d760c15b878715de802575c50052b730/$FILE/DF%20Medical%20Services%20Review.pdf

    At the time there would have been 3 PDF Fd Med Coys, PDF Logs Base Hosp, PDF Med facilities in DFTC, AC & NS plus 3 RDF Fd Med Coys.

    This report completely ignored the existence of the 3 RDF Fd Med Coys and the requirement for RDF enlistment (and limited extension/annual medicals for a small number).

    However, it recommends increasing the role of the RDF engaging with civvy healthcare, engaging with the RDF for possible overseas medical deployment.

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  11. #33
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    Food for thought:
    In South Africa the Military Health Service is a separate service entirely. It runs three hospitals (1, 2 and 3 Mil) providing healthcare to soldiers, police, Defence department employees and government security services.

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  13. #34
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    And on an unrelated note, back in national service days, just about every raging queen I’ve met who served got themselves posted as a “tampon tiffie”. However, one of them had his quiet nights at 1 Mil disturbed by being posted to the psych ward where the worst cases of PTSD from Angola size up his ears for their collection.

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  15. #35
    CQMS spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Have a look at this
    http://www.defence.ie/website.nsf/fba727373c93a4f080256c53004d976e/d760c15b878715de802575c50052b730/$FILE/DF%20Medical%20Services%20Review.pdf

    At the time there would have been 3 PDF Fd Med Coys, PDF Logs Base Hosp, PDF Med facilities in DFTC, AC & NS plus 3 RDF Fd Med Coys.

    This report completely ignored the existence of the 3 RDF Fd Med Coys and the requirement for RDF enlistment (and limited extension/annual medicals for a small number).

    However, it recommends increasing the role of the RDF engaging with civvy healthcare, engaging with the RDF for possible overseas medical deployment.
    That's interesting reading...particularly recruitment and retention.

    I can only comment on the UK model; theres essentially three pathways for Medical professionals;

    1. Already qualified...do Professionally Qualified Officers course (11 weeks) at Sandhurst followed by another three months military medicine course at Lichfield...then off you go.

    2. Sponsored by the military through university...ie paid a substantial bursary...during this time you are a member of the University Officers Training Corps. Once graduated, undertake the PQO course at Sandhurst...then 3 months or so at Lichfield. A Doctor would then spend two years as a GDMO (General Duties Medical Officer) with a battalion / regiment under the supervision of a Regimental Medical Officer...before choosing a specialisation...GP...trauma surgeon...anesthetist etc...their training can take seven or eight years at this stage. Dentists, Physios, Nursing Officers, Pharmacists would go straight to wherever after Lichfield.

    3. Join as a Reservist...already qualified...you'll almost certainly be mobilised in time of war and trawled for jobs when required.

    I think in practice the numbers of surgeons etc joining the regular RAMC is tiny; so the university 'home-grown' people...plus the reservists are vital.

    In fact (someone correct me if I'm wrong) more than one RAMC Medical Regiment is hybrid regular / reserve.
    'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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  17. #36
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Found this article from 2013 while rooting about on 'Tinternet

    https://www.imt.ie/features-opinion/...ds-13-02-2013/
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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  19. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    That's interesting reading...particularly recruitment and retention.

    I can only comment on the UK model; theres essentially three pathways for Medical professionals;

    1. Already qualified...do Professionally Qualified Officers course (11 weeks) at Sandhurst followed by another three months military medicine course at Lichfield...then off you go.

    2. Sponsored by the military through university...ie paid a substantial bursary...during this time you are a member of the University Officers Training Corps. Once graduated, undertake the PQO course at Sandhurst...then 3 months or so at Lichfield. A Doctor would then spend two years as a GDMO (General Duties Medical Officer) with a battalion / regiment under the supervision of a Regimental Medical Officer...before choosing a specialisation...GP...trauma surgeon...anesthetist etc...their training can take seven or eight years at this stage. Dentists, Physios, Nursing Officers, Pharmacists would go straight to wherever after Lichfield.

    3. Join as a Reservist...already qualified...you'll almost certainly be mobilised in time of war and trawled for jobs when required.

    I think in practice the numbers of surgeons etc joining the regular RAMC is tiny; so the university 'home-grown' people...plus the reservists are vital.

    In fact (someone correct me if I'm wrong) more than one RAMC Medical Regiment is hybrid regular / reserve.
    335 Medical Evacuation Regiment (in which I serve as a CMT) is based almost entirely of reservists, save for some PSIs (Permanent Staff Instructors) and more senior officers. It's a nationally recruited reservist unit which means that the minimum training commitment is currently two weekends and one, 2-week training period/year.

    Interestingly, our unit has gone down the route of being paired with three different armoured medical units, with which we train every so often, developing a land-MERT capability for whatever's coming down the line over the next few years.

    Most of the field hospitals are also made up of many more reservists than 'regulars'.

    I happen to know that RDF reservist psychologist also. The RDF also seems very open to having physicians on board - they seem to accept applications on an ongoing basis, though there don't seem to be too many.

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  21. #38
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    The RDF also seems very open to having physicians on board
    Yes we are if you are interested
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  22. #39
    Corporal irishrgr's Avatar
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    In the US, 70% of our deployable medical assets are in the Army Reserve. We recruit the various professionals actively, they do a four week "shoot and salute" Officer Basic Course and are directly commissioned. When they get called up, it's only for 120 day rotations, as most of them voted with their feet after the first few year long deployments. It killed their private practices and cost a lot of them a fortune. This model works very well, the docs love it because they can deploy and serve and keep their skills up in the field and they don't suffer a huge penalty.

    We have active docs too of course, you can be selected for the military medical school programme (very competitive), but it's a "two for one deal", two years of active duty for every year of school and residency. Those guys deploy for the full rotation, they are on active duty. It's still not a bad deal, you are paid to attend med school and graduate debt free, when your obligation is done, you have all the experience and credentials and off you go to the private sector to make money.

    The DF in Ireland could leverage a similar programme to the reserves here. Some sort of compensation for med school, a shoot and salute course over the summer breaks, then a RDF commission with a requirement to serve overseas or in Ireland for X amount of months in a Y period of time. Rest of the time they are working in the community, keeping current, Ireland gets docs, the DF get skilled docs, everyone wins. The current programme is a step in the right direction.

    Ideally this sort of programme would be expanded to nursing, other medical specialties, IT and other professionals. The DF gets skilled people with limited outlay and people have an opportunity to contribute.

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  24. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Yes we are if you are interested
    I actually would but I'm not a medical doctor!

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