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  • #16
    If they wanted to do it, the DF would need.....
    An international level hospital
    Porters
    General healthcare workers
    Admin staff
    Maintenance staff
    Nurses
    Paramedics
    Advanced paramedics
    Doctors
    SHO's
    Registrars
    Consultants
    Researchers
    Aviation (HEMS)
    Ambulance service

    Then there could be schools for specialist role medicine takes within units on the ground etc

    Ive not mentioned the myriad of other departments in a hospital, radiographers, phlebotomy etc.... but you get the idea

    Maybe an affiliation with a national hospital into which we could send staff to train etc... we would need retainers to match or at least close the gap in civi pay with a structured career ladder...

    Im sure ive left huge items out, best bet would be set up of a national military hospital open to the public but with majority military personnel serving and running it.
    it will cost massive money and will never happen.

    But if it did - and if it worked - it would be a brilliant thing to see.
    Last edited by morpheus; 29 June 2017, 16:12.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

    Comment


    • #18
      hmmmm i stand corrected on the pay scales for an SHO. however - that still does not take away from the fact that currently medical personnel do not see enough nor the variety of cases that their civi equivalent will in a hospital and THAT is the point that needs to be addressed. i still think that a quasi civi military hospital setup would be beneficial to all.
      "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
      "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

      Comment


      • #19
        Originally posted by morpheus View Post
        hmmmm i stand corrected on the pay scales for an SHO. however - that still does not take away from the fact that currently medical personnel do not see enough nor the variety of cases that their civi equivalent will in a hospital and THAT is the point that needs to be addressed. i still think that a quasi civi military hospital setup would be beneficial to all.
        On the contrary the DF do not have enough unique situations in day to day running that they require anything other what the normal general hospitals provide.. Most military posts are in proximity to a general acute hospital and the DF have equal access to these services already.

        Im sure ive left huge items out, best bet would be set up of a national military hospital open to the public but with majority military personnel serving and running it.
        it will cost massive money and will never happen.
        We can't get agreement on a national childrens hospital..how do you think a military hospital goes down.!!! Too much duplication and unless it was a private entity how do you staff it and pay for it.

        Not a runner.
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

        Comment


        • #20
          Some setup that results in building up of a miltiary medical staff that live and work mostly in a civi hospital at least for a period of time. there arent , as you said, enough opportunities in the military spectrum to keep doctors up to date or working as much as a civi counterpart
          "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
          "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

          Comment


          • #21
            The CMU is in a very unfortunate position with the MO strength.

            It kind of chicken and egg. Can't release them to maintain skills due to insufficient strength and can't retain them due to insufficient skills maintenance. Fortunately, the vast majority of what a MO will be asked to treat (including overseas) is what a GP will see in their surgery, however we do need other specialties apart from GPs.

            My solution?
            - reduce the amount of administrative medicals required
            - increase the MO establishment
            - actively recruit MOs to the RDF
            - more or less close Bricins
            - Upskill all MOs in pre hospital care
            - MOs do a monthly (more often if possible) hospital rotation in a major hospital close to their CMU
            - MOs to be available on call to National Ambulance Service (in the same way as the rapid response doctors you often see)


            The CMU could be likened to the small A&Es closing. It was found that many were unsafe due to the low patient numbers and therefore low skills retention
            Last edited by DeV; 30 June 2017, 21:15.

            Comment


            • #22
              Originally posted by morpheus View Post
              hmmmm i stand corrected on the pay scales for an SHO. however - that still does not take away from the fact that currently medical personnel do not see enough nor the variety of cases that their civi equivalent will in a hospital and THAT is the point that needs to be addressed. I still think that a quasi civi military hospital setup would be beneficial to all
              Would agree with this - some kind of co-location with one of the existing hospitals in Dublin, with similar, smaller scale co-locations in other areas of the country (e.g. Cork, Limerick, Galway)
              "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

              Comment


              • #23
                Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
                Would agree with this - some kind of co-location with one of the existing hospitals in Dublin, with similar, smaller scale co-locations in other areas of the country (e.g. Cork, Limerick, Galway)
                To be honest there isn't the demand. Better quality service, better outcomes, more efficient and better VFM to embed within public hospitals

                Comment


                • #24
                  2 new MOs commissioned yesterday according to the website- or i should say that they will be Medical Officers in 2 years time all going well. A step in the right direction though.

                  Comment


                  • #25
                    Originally posted by Audax View Post
                    2 new MOs commissioned yesterday according to the website- or i should say that they will be Medical Officers in 2 years time all going well. A step in the right direction though.
                    As you said they are being commissioned as MOs, they won't be qualified as Specialists in Military Medicine (and GPS) for 5 years

                    Comment


                    • #26
                      The closing date for the 2nd batch on the training scheme is 8 December

                      Comment


                      • #27
                        Originally posted by morpheus View Post
                        If they wanted to do it, the DF would need.....
                        An international level hospital
                        Porters
                        General healthcare workers
                        Admin staff
                        Maintenance staff
                        Nurses
                        Paramedics
                        Advanced paramedics
                        Doctors
                        SHO's
                        Registrars
                        Consultants
                        Researchers
                        Aviation (HEMS)
                        Ambulance service

                        Then there could be schools for specialist role medicine takes within units on the ground etc

                        Ive not mentioned the myriad of other departments in a hospital, radiographers, phlebotomy etc.... but you get the idea

                        Maybe an affiliation with a national hospital into which we could send staff to train etc... we would need retainers to match or at least close the gap in civi pay with a structured career ladder...

                        Im sure ive left huge items out, best bet would be set up of a national military hospital open to the public but with majority military personnel serving and running it.
                        it will cost massive money and will never happen.

                        But if it did - and if it worked - it would be a brilliant thing to see.
                        I'm not sure how the RDF works ie terms and conditions etc...the model used by the UK AMS is to recruit and retain a cohort of medics via the Army Reserve and trickle them in and out of deployments...so during Telic / Herrick days trauma surgeons etc with reservist liabilities were mobilised I believe for 3 month deployments. That benefited the NHS in that their medics were exposed to new procedures at the cutting edge of medicine...whilst the Army had an additional pool of highly qualified people to use.

                        Notionally they are organised into Field Hospitals...I'm unsure if they could roll out the door right nowRoad as a hospital and set themselves up in the field but I believe that's the aspiration...Rod and Serpent if he's still around may be able to comment...



                        Is this a model used by the Defence Forces...or could it be?
                        'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

                        Comment


                        • #28
                          Originally posted by spider View Post
                          I'm not sure how the RDF works ie terms and conditions etc...the model used by the UK AMS is to recruit and retain a cohort of medics via the Army Reserve and trickle them in and out of deployments...so during Telic / Herrick days trauma surgeons etc with reservist liabilities were mobilised I believe for 3 month deployments. That benefited the NHS in that their medics were exposed to new procedures at the cutting edge of medicine...whilst the Army had an additional pool of highly qualified people to use.

                          Notionally they are organised into Field Hospitals...I'm unsure if they could roll out the door right nowRoad as a hospital and set themselves up in the field but I believe that's the aspiration...Rod and Serpent if he's still around may be able to comment...



                          Is this a model used by the Defence Forces...or could it be?
                          Far from it, RDF medics were cut drastically around 2013

                          The DF isn’t great at recognising external qualifications.

                          Having said that AFAIK a DE RDF officer was commissioned about 2 years ago. I think he is a clinical psychologist.

                          Not sure how it would go down with those in the medical profession. They are over worked and underpaid as is

                          Comment


                          • #29
                            Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            Far from it, RDF medics were cut drastically around 2013

                            The DF isn’t great at recognising external qualifications.

                            Having said that AFAIK a DE RDF officer was commissioned about 2 years ago. I think he is a clinical psychologist.

                            Not sure how it would go down with those in the medical profession. They are over worked and underpaid as is
                            That's a pity Dev it's quite a big thing in NHS circles to be a military reservist.

                            The question is would the DF be better to invest their RDF budget in generating a capability like a field hospital...and chopping some other areas of the orbat. Make it an attractive thing to do.

                            Our regular nurses, surgeons etc work in one of I believe five NHS hospitals...in uniform...when not deployed. Big one is QEH Birmingham.
                            'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

                            Comment


                            • #30
                              Originally posted by spider View Post
                              I'm not sure how the RDF works ie terms and conditions etc...the model used by the UK AMS is to recruit and retain a cohort of medics via the Army Reserve and trickle them in and out of deployments...so during Telic / Herrick days trauma surgeons etc with reservist liabilities were mobilised I believe for 3 month deployments. That benefited the NHS in that their medics were exposed to new procedures at the cutting edge of medicine...whilst the Army had an additional pool of highly qualified people to use.

                              Notionally they are organised into Field Hospitals...I'm unsure if they could roll out the door right nowRoad as a hospital and set themselves up in the field but I believe that's the aspiration...Rod and Serpent if he's still around may be able to comment...






                              Is this a model used by the Defence Forces...or could it be?
                              Yep... was present at a talk delivered by a then TA (now Army Reserve) Colonel a couple of years back. He was part of a visiting group of TA officers from NI. Said officer was a GP in civvy land, in the Medical Corps militarily. Fascinating talk. Said he was did 3 tours of Afghanistan, first one compulsorily mobbed, volunteered for the other two

                              Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              Far from it, RDF medics were cut drastically around 2013

                              The DF isn’t great at recognising external qualifications.

                              Having said that AFAIK a DE RDF officer was commissioned about 2 years ago. I think he is a clinical psychologist.

                              Not sure how it would go down with those in the medical profession. They are over worked and underpaid as is
                              Said RDF officer has co authored an article in this month's An Cosantóir

                              Originally posted by spider View Post
                              That's a pity Dev it's quite a big thing in NHS circles to be a military reservist.

                              The question is would the DF be better to invest their RDF budget in generating a capability like a field hospital...and chopping some other areas of the orbat. Make it an attractive thing to do.

                              Our regular nurses, surgeons etc work in one of I believe five NHS hospitals...in uniform...when not deployed. Big one is QEH Birmingham.
                              Presuming that's Selly Oak? Lot of the serious wounded end up there I believe...
                              "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                              Comment

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