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  1. #26
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Under the heading of "stuff". During the rescue missions down south I was very impressed at the number of Deepwater ports particularly around Sicily eg Catania, Palermo, Augusta, Messina etc. We, in this country need to develop something similar. I would suggest that all new port developments, like lower Harbour in Cork should have a dedicated Naval Berth for our ships and Visiting Naval vessels. Other than Dublin and Cork we have done nothing to develop the Marine possibilities at a commercial level-- just hard to get at Fishery Harbours.
    Cost benefit?
    What return will they make for the cost?

    There is ports that can take NS vessels without the need for a Naval berth.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Cost benefit?
    What return will they make for the cost?

    There is ports that can take NS vessels without the need for a Naval berth.
    Its not just a case of investment. We are talking about harbours in a non-tidal, non estuary environment that are naturally deeper than ports subject to the silting associated with tides and rivers. In addition, Sicilian (and indeed Italian) ports are run by the Capitaneria del Porto (basically part of the Italian Coastguard) which in turn is subordinate to the Navy. Thus the need for occasional moorings for military/coastguard vessels is something that they factor into their planning from day one. Finally, not all is as rosy as it looks. In Augusta Naval BAse, limited quay space means that the vast majority of the vessels are on Med Moorings with no possibility of loading heavy gear alongside. Having visited Haulbowline, I would say that you are far better off.

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  4. #28
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Apart from jobs and the NS it isn't a strategic asset.

    If it loss making (don't know if it is), then the jobs are probably unsustainable in the long term.

    The NS wouldn't use it enough to just its retention alone.

    If the NS was to recommission the one in Haulbowline the same applies.

    NS scheduled dry docking requirements would be 37 days annually (assuming a 7 day working week).

  5. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Ancient mariner, Italy's deepwater ports have existed since WW 1...i'm sure any firefighters reading this would disagree with the notion that they have nothing to do but wait til a fire kicks off. These days, they are more paramedic than firefighter, yet have to be good at both.
    They are probably there even longer, however the ports are developed to meet and match all modern requirments. Augusta in Sicily is one of Italy's bigger ports coming in at No.5 , which means there are 4 others with even bigger capacity. Sciliy on its own has expanded many ports and has at least 5 that can take our ships alongside. In Ireland we have only two ports at most that can take ships at low water and provide a berth. Marine wise we are short on berths and dockyards, with an overall weak maritime planning and governance.

  6. #30
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    One final point about crewing on Naval ships. There is a factor that drains a ships competence. If the ship is in action mode, where most crew are required, to man stations, as in action, or assist in major emergencies all lasting beyond 24 hrs, then bigger crews are a must. Corvette wartime crew was as high 80/90 depending on type, to cover 24/7 availability.

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  8. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by whirlywind View Post
    " In Ireland we have only two ports at most that can take ships at low water and provide a berth."
    While in agreement with most of the sentiment expressed by ancientmariner I know of at least eight ports (excluding the tidal docks in Galway and Limerick) that could and have provided a berth for Irish naval ships at low water.
    Can it hold any of them? Discount limerick because a ship cannot leave whenever it wants to.

  9. #32
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    IRISH Ports to access all tides . 1. Dublin 2. Dun Laoghaire ,but weather constrained and yacht obstructed. 3. Rosslare, but no preferential berth all spoken for.4 Cork Harbour mainly at Naval Base. 5. Killybegs, up to Aisling size but not for long stay. 6. Rathmullen, but weather constrained. 7. Derry, but berth has no bollards and necessary to tie on to car park rails. 8. Belfast. There's 8 Ports but only two are tenable Cork and Dublin. I discount Foynes as it is too far up the Estuary and clogged with other traffic.
    Can you list ports with 5+metres at LWS?
    Last edited by ancientmariner; 13th August 2015 at 20:14. Reason: omission

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  11. #33
    C/S CTU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    3. Rosslare but no preferential berth all spoken for.
    What about berth 4 in Rosslare, Stena used it for the fast ferry but stoped that service a few years ago, And I have seen one of the P40s using it once.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed! I mean, annihilation’s bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

  12. #34
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    It can be quite expensive to dock/tie up in commercial ports.

  13. #35
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    I presume the daily watch duration and timing is changed to suit circumstances; a friend who was RN said that they went 7,5,5,7 for actions like the Balkans during ops in the Adriatic

  14. #36
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Waterford, but given the city docks are so far from the mouth of the harbour its a nightmare,but Belview is very capable New Ross is quite capable as well
    Just visiting

  15. #37
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    I did NOT know that Large ships ie more than 10,000 tonnes could get into Killybegs but I see they have done port development to cater for 40,000 and 12 metres draft. That is good news. In such a harbour we should book a naval berth with water and access to fueling facilities at least by truck.
    We need more progress like this in case there is a need to base a unit on the West Coast for a period.

  16. #38
    Lt General Bravo20's Avatar
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    MOD: For those of you reading this who are a bit confused, looking at the thread title and then trying to work out what deep ports have to do with rank or appointments. Those posts fall under the theme of "Stuff"

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  18. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    ....the term is working dress as that is what it is. For safety reasons it is what is , Designer gear and sandals are not really appropriate for working aboard ship, where everything has the potential to maim or kill if not treated with respect ( especially the cooks)...
    Brilliant...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  19. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Waterford, but given the city docks are so far from the mouth of the harbour its a nightmare,but Belview is very capable New Ross is quite capable as well
    Low water transiting to 'Ross can be about 3-4m in spots.

  20. #41
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Low water transiting to 'Ross can be about 3-4m in spots.
    They got CPVs in there in the past
    Just visiting

  21. #42
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    Ports

    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    They got CPVs in there in the past
    New Ross would not be an ideal Naval Port. Usually quick access to the sea without locks, bridges, or sand bars is the ideal. The CPV has a draft of 2.7m but would find the Bar at Duncannon difficult at low water in adverse weather.

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  23. #43
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    More stuff. Our side sank a derelict two masted motor sailer off the ssw coast recently. Any forensics? Or just Davy Jones? Name? Where built? Any Docs. on board. Where from. Interpol. Any History?

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  25. #44
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    Petite D'Eau.

    Adrift from Bahamas.

    Owners contacted.

    Hazard to shipping removed.

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  27. #45
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    Just asking. Insurance own the boat, if they paid up.Hazard no more.

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  29. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    More stuff. Our side sank a derelict two masted motor sailer off the ssw coast recently. Any forensics? Or just Davy Jones? Name? Where built? Any Docs. on board. Where from. Interpol. Any History?
    Think ur asking the obvious..... which won't be answered here

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  31. #47
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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  32. #48
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    Am I missing something? Table bears no connection to foi request.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  33. #49
    Lt General Bravo20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Am I missing something? Table bears no connection to foi request.
    I was thinking the same thing

  34. #50
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    It was more the info contained in the table I was interested in

    As at 30/6/16, the NS was critically short of Lts, S/Lts, POs and LSs

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