Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

RACO speak out about Officer losses

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • RACO speak out about Officer losses

    Military officials should not spread unnecessary fears - Coveney


    Minister for Defence Simon Coveney has told senior military officers they should not spread unnecessary fears and concerns among the public.

    He was responding tonight to the assertion by The Representative Association of Commissioned Officers (RACO) that the defence forces does not have the capability to deal with an ongoing international terrorist threat here similar to the one in Paris.

    Minister Coveney said: "The latest threat assessment to Ireland does not increase… it is low."



    “We shouldn’t be suggesting that there is threat out there that we don’t have the capacity to respond to,” he added.

    The Chief of Staff Vice Admiral Michael Mellett also said he was satisfied the defence forces could undertake any role either at home or abroad, assigned to them by Government.



    RACO - which represents army, air corps and naval officers - said an international terrorist threat has already been identified by Government (in the white paper) but the Defence Forces do not at present have the resources or personnel to deal with it on a continual basis.

    The association said the Defence Forces have also lost a large number of highly trained pilots, naval commanders and bomb-disposal specialists in the last two years.

    At its annual conference in Kildare this afternoon, RACO said what happened in Paris is an example of the threats that are within close range of Ireland's people and borders.

    RACO General Secretary Commandant Earnán Naughton said that while the Defence Forces could address a one-off incident, they do not at present have the ability to deal with an ongoing threat such as the number of incidents over a period of time that have occurred in France.



    He said at officer level there are 32 vacancies in the Naval Service, 34 pilots needed in the air corps and more than half the required number in the bomb-disposal unit.

    He said 136 officers have left in the past two years, many moving to better-paid jobs in the private sector.

    “If you are losing the top-end capabilities from specialists such as in the commissioned officer ranks, the people that lead and manage these type of capabilities, then you are at a loss,” Commandant Naughton said.

    Stabilised strength

    The association also said the Defence Forces must now be resourced in terms of both personnel and equipment to deal with the threat of international terrorism on a continual basis.

    In his address to the conference today, Minister for Defence Simon Coveney said he is committed to maintaining the stabilised strength of the permanent defence force of at least 9,500 personnel.

    The Minister commended the crew of LÉ Niamh, LÉ Eithne and LÉ Samuel Beckett for their outstanding endeavours in saving the lives of so many, and all other members of the Defence Forces serving in conflict zones throughout the world.

    Looking to the future, the Minister said: "In bringing forward the white paper, a key issue for me as Minister of Defence was that I secured a level of resources which would enable the Department of Defence to meet the commitments in the white paper.

    “I am glad to be able to say therefore, that there has been a significant boost on capital funding for the Defence Sector contained in the recently announced Capital Plan."

    The Minister went on to thank RACO for their active engagement in the process, which provided valuable inputs and informed the decisions contained in the white paper.

    Terrorist acts

    He also referred to the dynamic international security environment and the threats emanating from it.

    "Those threats to the international order, to our European values, to our way of life were brought home to us in terrorists acts on the Streets of Paris last week" the Minister said.

    "It is at these times we look to the agility, readiness and responsiveness of our Defence Forces to meet the challenging and changing demands of the new security environment.

    “Yesterday the Council of Defence Ministers met. I made it clear that Ireland will do what we can to be of assistance at this time."

    "As a result of improved finances we are able to implement a programme of ongoing recruitment of personnel, acquire essential equipment including major platforms and invest in infrastructure within the Defence Forces," he said.

    In referring specifically to the Lansdowne Road proposals he stated that he was pleased to note that following a recent Ballot, RACO members have accepted the terms of the Lansdowne Road Agreement.

    In conclusion the Minister stated the he believes that the "recent publication of the white paper on Defence has given us a framework that will enable us to successfully address the many challenges the organisation will encounter in the future".
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  • #2
    It's great to see high ranking Officers speaking out publicly about vacancies in the officer ranks.
    The fact there are more than a 136 vacancies in effect means that overstretched officers now have to take the strain of the missing officers.


    Wouldn't we have a brilliant Defence Force if our high ranking officers spoke out publicly about the conditions our young Soldiers are enduring.

    Wouldn't it be great if our officers just for once put their efforts into looking after the men and women they lead instead of looking after themselves.

    Both Napolean and JDL said the responsibility of command is to look after the horse, the men and then yourself.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Comment


    • #3
      RACO in "not enough jobs for the boys" shocker.
      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

      Comment


      • #4
        same ol, same ol....I recall the pilots pulling that stunt in the Don. Several prominent non-flying pilots were leading the charge on that one. Claiming flight pay yet wanting a retention bonus, in case Ryanair plucked them....until the cold, hard reality of actually working for Ryanair bit them in the arse and there was a frantic rush not to leave.

        Comment


        • #5
          What Sr Officer is going to rock the promotion boat by speaking the truth on actual real issues!?

          Comment


          • #6
            In fairness the hint is in the name.. RACO is a representative body for the Officers and their interests?! You can't blame them for for not representing young soldiers, it's not their job. There is a body dedicated to that already....PDFORRA.

            Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
            RACO in "not enough jobs for the boys" shocker.
            Surely that should read "too many jobs for the boys" based on that amount of vacancies. Same problems that Sgt's are having.
            Last edited by Duffman; 21 November 2015, 13:34.
            "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

            "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

            Comment


            • #7
              In fairness the hint is in the name.. RACO is a representative body for the Officers and their interests?! You can't blame them for for not representing young soldiers, it's not their job. There is a body dedicated to that already....PDFORRA.
              RACO are a very capable organisation, they represent the interests of their members (Officers) exceptionally well. Have a look at the amount of new Cols and other senior positions, have a look at the amount of junior officers fulfilling roles overseas that would traditionally be NCO appointments, have a look at the pension arrangements, etc.
              RACO has shown themselves to be well capable of lobbying and representing the interests of their membership.

              RACO is made up of officers, the same vigour, enthusiasm and bravery that the officers of RACO exercised in looking after themselves should have been used in looking after the men and women they "have the honour" to lead.

              It is 10000000000% wrong to say "you can't blame them... And it's not their job"

              It is the job of every officer to look after the troops and I can blame them for not carrying out their duty and abdicating their responsibility .
              Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
              Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
              The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
              The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
              The best lack all conviction, while the worst
              Are full of passionate intensity.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                It is the job of every officer to look after the troops and I can blame them for not carrying out their duty and abdicating their responsibility .
                100% agree with you there and thats not for debate.

                Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                It is 10000000000% wrong to say "you can't blame them... And it's not their job"
                I disagree. Whilst yes it is the officers job to look after their troops. The job of RACO is to represent Officers. The Job of PDFORRA is to represent Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen. Any failure to represent the other ranks falls at the door of PDFORRA not at RACO.

                Which should lead to the question of why we might need two representative bodies in the first place. Surely one body could do it adequately.
                "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

                "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Operationally is the shortage of postfillers missed.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by danno View Post
                    Operationally is the shortage of postfillers missed.
                    Yep Bn Comdr's or Sgt's triple jobbing is not ideal.
                    "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

                    "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      RACO, PDFORRA etc are simply organisations.

                      Becoming a member or a representative of either doesn't take away your military responsibility.

                      RACO is made up of officers, just like the CBB Officers mess golf club is made up of officers. Their memberships of such societies or organisations are in addition to their duties and responsibilities that they have to their troops.

                      My main point was that they are awfully good at representing themselves and their fellow ring wearers and that same vigour should have been put into representing the men and women they lead.
                      Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                      Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                      The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                      The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                      The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                      Are full of passionate intensity.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                        It's great to see high ranking Officers speaking out publicly about vacancies in the officer ranks.
                        The fact there are more than a 136 vacancies in effect means that overstretched officers now have to take the strain of the missing officers.


                        Wouldn't we have a brilliant Defence Force if our high ranking officers spoke out publicly about the conditions our young Soldiers are enduring.

                        Wouldn't it be great if our officers just for once put their efforts into looking after the men and women they lead instead of looking after themselves.

                        Both Napolean and JDL said the responsibility of command is to look after the horse, the men and then yourself.
                        Imagine there were an organisation that deal with the conditions of the other ranks in the Defence Forces. They could be called a Permanent Defence Forces Other Ranks Representative Association. They could even try getting a fair deal for all other ranks instead of voting to screw new enterants with crap wages instead of looking after the old sweats.
                        Last edited by northie; 21 November 2015, 14:34.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by hedgehog View Post

                          My main point was that they are awfully good at representing themselves and their fellow ring wearers and that same vigour should have been put into representing the men and women they lead.
                          I understand your point but I think there is two different arguments here. My argument is that unfortunately we do not have one representative body that can present needs of the DF as a whole, if that was the case then yes the officers involved in that representative body should indeed be representing the troops they lead at a govt level.

                          Like teachers and principals there are separate unions. As a result RACO's primary aim is to represent officers. If there are issues beyond an organizational level that the other ranks need to be represented for that is the remit of PDFORRA. If there is a failure of not representing adequately other ranks at govt level then it is the failure of PDFORRA.
                          That's why I question the need for separate organizations (the obvious occasional conflict of interest aside). We should be represented as the Defence Forces as a whole to the govt. Over 9000 tax payers and their families can make more noise than a couple of thousand.

                          The other debate of officers not representing the men and women they lead at an in house is a separate point.
                          "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

                          "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I always thought there should be Officers Forra, NCO Forra and Ptes FOrra but that's another days work.

                            We cannot compare military life with teachers or headmasters because we are totally different.

                            RACO is simply an organisation ran for and by Defence Force officers. Just because they are in an organisations whether it

                            Be the Legion of Mary or the Leeds United supporters club they have a duty to look after their troops.

                            Irregardless of the misleading headline- RACO didn't say anything because RACO as a corporate body can't say anything ( it's not a person)

                            Those that spoke abou officers vacancies, those that put it to the minister, those that put it to the chief were all serving officers the very same officers who failed to speak out about the conditions their troops are forced to endure.

                            If you say that RACO are only concerned with officers then ask yourself do you really understand the responsibilities and duties one has to their subordinates. If you did understand then you would know that true leaders and those who go on about the honour of leading would never use words such as only.
                            Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                            Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                            The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                            The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                            The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                            Are full of passionate intensity.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                              I always thought there should be Officers Forra, NCO Forra and Ptes FOrra but that's another days work.
                              Why bother? By your rationale the Officers Forra should be representing the issues of the Ptes Forra anyway?


                              Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                              RACO is simply an organisation ran for and by Defence Force officers.
                              This again is simply true and the reason why they represent primarily the concern of the officers. Do you have PDFORRA arguing the case for officers conditions? I understand what you mean by responsibility to subordinates and whilst it is inherently enshrined in the role of leader, NCO or officer, unfortunately that is not the purpose of the individual organizations. It would however be the purpose of an unified organization.

                              If you feel that the other ranks are not being represented. Well then that fault lies with the relevant representative body. Obviously if its in house concerns or bad practice by the leadership the buck stops with the officer as it is their responsibility. But if it is relating to issues outside of their internal control..

                              That is why I previously mentioned an all for one style organization. As it stands PDFORRA don't stand for officers (whilst I'm sure they argue for better conditions for all) and RACO don't raise other ranks concerns (whilst again I'm sure they argue for better conditions for all).
                              Last edited by Duffman; 21 November 2015, 16:18.
                              "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

                              "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X