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River class OPVs, NS, RN, etc

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  • Even if fishing only represents an extremely tiny percentage of the UK economy and that the vast majority is exported to the EU we can expect it to become a major issue during the trade negotiations, if we even get that far.

    It is very unlikely the UK would want to reactivate any rights, remember 100yrs on we still have not finalised the control of Lough Foyle or Carlingford Lough!!

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    • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
      Even if fishing only represents an extremely tiny percentage of the UK economy and that the vast majority is exported to the EU we can expect it to become a major issue during the trade negotiations, if we even get that far.

      It is very unlikely the UK would want to reactivate any rights, remember 100yrs on we still have not finalised the control of Lough Foyle or Carlingford Lough!!
      I agree it is a major issue of establishing control rights. Our neighbours, on the other island want to be on good terms, and allow us to play in their garden when on patrols and transiting Northern waters to the East Coast. We use Lough Foyle to anchor at Greencastle / Moville. Likewise in Carlingford at Greenore.

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      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
        I agree it is a major issue of establishing control rights. Our neighbours, on the other island want to be on good terms, and allow us to play in their garden when on patrols and transiting Northern waters to the East Coast. We use Lough Foyle to anchor at Greencastle / Moville. Likewise in Carlingford at Greenore.
        The talk from our nearest neighbour is not exactly encouraging about our future relationship. What we have to remember also is that the 200nm EEZ was only adopted in 1982 and that the UK only defined it in law in the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009. Thus many of the tradional water both our fishing fleets used were before this time outside the territorial waters and thus no conflict. While the Uk was in the CFP also no problem, after March 2019 we will have to see what happens but might mean we will need all the NS vessels we can get our hands on. Let's see.

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        • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
          The talk from our nearest neighbour is not exactly encouraging about our future relationship. What we have to remember also is that the 200nm EEZ was only adopted in 1982 and that the UK only defined it in law in the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009. Thus many of the tradional water both our fishing fleets used were before this time outside the territorial waters and thus no conflict. While the Uk was in the CFP also no problem, after March 2019 we will have to see what happens but might mean we will need all the NS vessels we can get our hands on. Let's see.
          There's also the issue that we struck down the agreement with the UK in regards to the NI fishing fleet having access to our waters from memory, it's waiting for a new Daíl Act to restore that, so we could have issues there as well apart from gB based hulls.

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          • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
            There's also the issue that we struck down the agreement with the UK in regards to the NI fishing fleet having access to our waters from memory, it's waiting for a new Daíl Act to restore that, so we could have issues there as well apart from gB based hulls.
            Although the EEZ was born in 1976, as usual it took many years to ratify it legally in 1982. We currently have signed up to scores of International Agreements but have ratified very few due to penny pinching and lack of manpower. The Government want to allow N.I vessels have the same rights as all Irish vessels but the IFPO spokes people are throwing a wobbler. We are not good at sharing our stirabout!!

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            • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
              Although the EEZ was born in 1976, as usual it took many years to ratify it legally in 1982. We currently have signed up to scores of International Agreements but have ratified very few due to penny pinching and lack of manpower. The Government want to allow N.I vessels have the same rights as all Irish vessels but the IFPO spokes people are throwing a wobbler. We are not good at sharing our stirabout!!
              With whom will we negotiate? Is fisheries not one of the areas that has been devolved to the regional government?

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              • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                With whom will we negotiate? Is fisheries not one of the areas that has been devolved to the regional government?
                Well, as I understand it we have Dept. of Agriculture, Food, and Marine (DAFM) who oversee our negotiated compliance with the Common Fishery Policy in the EU on the share out of fish species and conservancy measures. They also negotiate with the domestic fishery interests to maximise outputs from agreed quota. I suppose sharing that with another on island group is raising the spectre of having to share.

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                • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                  Well, as I understand it we have Dept. of Agriculture, Food, and Marine (DAFM) who oversee our negotiated compliance with the Common Fishery Policy in the EU on the share out of fish species and conservancy measures. They also negotiate with the domestic fishery interests to maximise outputs from agreed quota. I suppose sharing that with another on island group is raising the spectre of having to share.
                  Our side is clear and always has been, what is not clear is with whom from the other side will we have to negotiate? Is it for Welch waters the Assembly in Cardiff as they are responsible locally for fisheries, the same goes for Scottish waters with Holyrood being responsible for their waters. The Scots even have their own protect vessels and patrol aircraft.

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                  • See there's reports that Brazil will take up the Clyde sometime next year after she's replaced.

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                    • Probably the hardest worked ship of the class, has spent her entire life in the South Atlantic. Probably wouldn't be economical to bring her back to work in Local waters.
                      Why Brazil though? It's not like the Brazilian economy needs second hand OPVs. The Largest navy in South America isn't short of ships either. Probably not compatable with the Amazonas class.
                      That's before you even get into the ethics of dealing with the new Brazilian administration, while at the same time remembering when the ship was denied entry to Rio de Janeiro because of how Brazil felt about Argentina's claim to the Malvinas.
                      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                      • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                        Our side is clear and always has been, what is not clear is with whom from the other side will we have to negotiate? Is it for Welch waters the Assembly in Cardiff as they are responsible locally for fisheries, the same goes for Scottish waters with Holyrood being responsible for their waters. The Scots even have their own protect vessels and patrol aircraft.
                        I presume for our own waters it is us and the Office of the NI Secretary and the NI Fishing interests. Outside of that it would have to be UK Dept. of Marine as the man paying the piper and calling the tune.

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                        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                          I presume for our own waters it is us and the Office of the NI Secretary and the NI Fishing interests. Outside of that it would have to be UK Dept. of Marine as the man paying the piper and calling the tune.
                          For English waters it would be the Marine Management Organisation which comes under the Dept for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Gove's department!!). For the others it would be the local governments but as there is currently no functioning goverment in Stormont it would default to the NI Secretary and her office. All means that just for the UK waters we would have at present 4 sets of negotiations. May's government did try to steal the powers but that has not been a complete sucess.

                          There could be such fun to come, at present they are all part of our common EU CFP, but after March what could happen??? Imagine the Scots decide only Scotish owned and registered boats can fish in their waters! That the Welch do the same, it could be a whole can of worns that they could open.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                            For English waters it would be the Marine Management Organisation which comes under the Dept for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Gove's department!!). For the others it would be the local governments but as there is currently no functioning goverment in Stormont it would default to the NI Secretary and her office. All means that just for the UK waters we would have at present 4 sets of negotiations. May's government did try to steal the powers but that has not been a complete sucess.

                            There could be such fun to come, at present they are all part of our common EU CFP, but after March what could happen??? Imagine the Scots decide only Scotish owned and registered boats can fish in their waters! That the Welch do the same, it could be a whole can of worns that they could open.
                            Elements of what you say are probable for opening gambits at negotiations. The Scots did try for ownership for parts of North Sea Oil. High Courts are very interested in Law but even more so in precedent and history. Like Brexit any reconstruct could produce a Frankenstein along with the worms?

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                            • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                              Probably the hardest worked ship of the class, has spent her entire life in the South Atlantic. Probably wouldn't be economical to bring her back to work in Local waters.
                              Why Brazil though? It's not like the Brazilian economy needs second hand OPVs. The Largest navy in South America isn't short of ships either. Probably not compatable with the Amazonas class.
                              That's before you even get into the ethics of dealing with the new Brazilian administration, while at the same time remembering when the ship was denied entry to Rio de Janeiro because of how Brazil felt about Argentina's claim to the Malvinas.
                              Its not unique to ships. Brazil just got two pages in 'Airforces Monthly' around aircraft purchases...money no object it would seem
                              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                              • A very nice analysis (with loads of photos) of the newest River Class, HMS Medway.


                                JUNE 28, 2019
                                Up close with the Royal Navy’s newest ship – HMS Medway
                                HMS Medway arrived in her base port of Portsmouth for the first time on 17 June. She is in the process of working up before commissioning into the RN in September. We went on board to speak to her officers and look around the newest ship in the fleet.

                                Growing the fleet
                                Medway is the second of the five Batch II river class OPVs. What makes her somewhat unique is that she is the first new ship to join the RN for many years that is actually an addition to the strength of the fleet, rather than just a replacement for a decommissioned vessel. (Thanks to the sensible decision to retain the Batch I vessels). The first BII OPV, HMS Forth, is a direct replacement for HMS Clyde and will take over her role as permanent Falklands guard ship in the latter part of this year.

                                From one perspective, the Batch II OPVs may be seen as symptomatic of UK defence procurement failures, hideously expensive and comparing badly with more capable foreign equivalents. Their hefty price tag was paid to keep the shipbuilding skills base alive during delays to the start of the Type 26 frigate programme. Broadly speaking, this was the least-worst choice in the situation created by successive governments’ unwillingness to place regular shipbuilding orders. The more positive side of the story is the Type 26 design already proving to be a global success while the RN is getting five modern vessels which can make a contribution to reducing the workload on the rest of the fleet.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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