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  1. #1
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    training Speed Marching with weight

    Hi all,

    Quick request, Im training to complete the 10km in under one hour - im carrying 16.5kg (i know thats heavier than required, but I prefer to train harder than I need for this).

    Currently I simply head out and try to run between 6 and 8km as fast as i can with the backpack

    However I remember on the PTL course we were instructed on a method of pacing whereby you do so many seconds walking , then shuffling, then jogging, then running and cycle back.

    I cant remember the sequence or the timing

    Anyone here know it?

    Also any advice on ways to train for this? Im finding the boots complete killers, runners and a pair of civvy combats and im fine, soon as i stick the boots on and try to run my achilles and calves start to ache. I dont have decent boots and tried out the parade boots, however im in the market for a pair of lightweight combat boots and should have a pair shortly which will hopefully help.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  2. #2
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    Hi all,

    Quick request, Im training to complete the 10km in under one hour - im carrying 16.5kg (i know thats heavier than required, but I prefer to train harder than I need for this).

    Currently I simply head out and try to run between 6 and 8km as fast as i can with the backpack

    However I remember on the PTL course we were instructed on a method of pacing whereby you do so many seconds walking , then shuffling, then jogging, then running and cycle back.

    I cant remember the sequence or the timing

    Anyone here know it?

    Also any advice on ways to train for this? Im finding the boots complete killers, runners and a pair of civvy combats and im fine, soon as i stick the boots on and try to run my achilles and calves start to ache. I dont have decent boots and tried out the parade boots, however im in the market for a pair of lightweight combat boots and should have a pair shortly which will hopefully help.
    I have the e-mail of the RDF PTI in DFPES. Do you want me to forward your query on, Morpheus?
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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  4. #3
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    Most simple method of scout pacing has always been 100 paces at a quick stride, 100 paces at a shuffle... A pace being counted every time your left foot hits the floor. I've done the method you speak of before and really didn't like it... Once weight is on ya, the lines between shuffling/jogging/running become quite blurred.

    Before even worrying about shuffling and what not though, you need to nail down actually being able to march at a consistently quick pace. If you plan on "scout pacing" the 10k, you haven't a hope of hitting a sub 1 hour 10k if your marching isn't particularly quick.

    Ya see some lads run the entire 10k but I'd advise against it... Running frequently with weight on your back is advised against by anyone with a brain for a good reason.

    In short... Sort out your marching pace, have a pace plan in your, stick with said pace plan and when you eventually start breathing out your hole and getting uncomfortable, get on with it. Then you'll have you sub 1 hour 10k.

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  6. #4
    Lower than a snakes balls Duffman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    However I remember on the PTL course we were instructed on a method of pacing whereby you do so many seconds walking , then shuffling, then jogging, then running and cycle back.

    I cant remember the sequence or the timing

    Anyone here know it?
    There's no concrete formula as it you vary it to your or the groups ability. Usually one person calls the intervals if your training in groups. Eg in 5 min cycles, run for 2, stride out for 2, shuffle for 1.

    You can adjust the timings based on recovery after hills etc. Setting a timer at 60 seconds is the best job as you don't have to fiddle with it. So you start running after 2 beeps.
    "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

    "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

  7. #5
    Lower than a snakes balls Duffman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fridge Magnet View Post

    Ya see some lads run the entire 10k but I'd advise against it... Running frequently with weight on your back is advised against by anyone with a brain for a good reason.
    Wouldn't agree with you here. If you're going for a sub 60 good luck getting in with straight out marching. You can pass it (barely) by walking. Pacing won't work when you're jogging with weight either. Stick with intervals of time or if you know the terrain notable regular features.

    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    However I remember on the PTL course we were instructed on a method of pacing whereby you do so many seconds walking , then shuffling, then jogging, then running and cycle back.

    I cant remember the sequence or the timing

    Anyone here know it?
    There's no concrete formula as it you vary it to your or the groups ability. Usually one person calls the intervals if your training in groups. Eg in 5 min cycles, run for 2, stride out for 2, shuffle for 1.

    You can adjust the timings based on recovery after hills etc. Setting a timer at 60 seconds is the best job as you don't have to fiddle with it. So you start running after 2 beeps.
    "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

    "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

  8. #6
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    Alt-berg Sneekers are the ones you want. Really comfortable to run in. Generally for a speed march you horse it uphill to a hard walking pace, and then run downhill and on the flat - I don't know the topography of your route, so that might not be the answer you are looking for. Yous in the PDF/RDF are perverts for laces all the way up tight. Sure if it's on a road, why not just tighten the laces up until the bottom of your tib/fib, and then loosely tighten it from there on upwards? It'll give your calves and achilles tendons a chance.

  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duffman View Post
    Wouldn't agree with you here. If you're going for a sub 60 good luck getting in with straight out marching. You can pass it (barely) by walking. Pacing won't work when you're jogging with weight either. Stick with intervals of time or if you know the terrain notable regular features.
    I probably should've clarified that point a bit better.

    When I mentioned "running frequently" I should have explained that I meant people who frequently incorporate runs in full kit into their training. Nobody has to agree with me but the evidence is there with regards to the stress it puts on the body and the long term damage it can cause.

    Obviously you're not gonna hit a sub 1 hour 10k by speed marching the entire thing. Part 3 is a once a year thing... I was speaking more in terms of general training programming.

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  11. #8
    Lt General Bravo20's Avatar
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    I was wondering why someone was aiming for a sub 1 hour for the 10k. I see it is now graded and a grade 1 for 17-29 is 1 hr 03 minutes.

  12. #9
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    I was wondering why someone was aiming for a sub 1 hour for the 10k. I see it is now graded and a grade 1 for 17-29 is 1 hr 03 minutes.
    Thanks for the advice so far all, this isnt the ten k annual fitness test, its another event im training for but the training will obviously be transferable when i do the annual ITs and yes it must be completed in combats and boots, am looking around for lightweight boots as we speak.

    theres lots of hills in the route im talking about

    first major hill is 60m over about 1 km then theres a long slow downhill then a number of smaller shorter climbs and flats, then another longer slow 40 meters over 2 km to the finish. surface varies from road to dusty track.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  13. #10
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    I'm thinking "Commando March" in Spean Bridge.

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  15. #11
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    Hardly, I thought that entrance is limited to those with commando connections.

  16. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibedepusib0ss View Post
    Hardly, I thought that entrance is limited to those with commando connections.
    i thought it was pretty much anyone - not that i've ever done it, i get enough of that shit at work...

    wasn't it set up by some bloke the Waltfinder General prosecuted and it all ended in tears?

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  18. #13
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Ive done this particular route before and completed it in 1hr 11 minutes, im keen on improving my time.
    Ive managed the ten k run/walk in gormo for ITs in 56 minutes, but thats on the completely flat.

    Im not proving anything to anyone but myself here, its just part of my overall fitness goals that I set for myself to keep motivated, whether its a hell and back, samsung night run, grant thornton 5k run or an cosantoir 10km.

    currently im runnning with and without the weight in runners and combats, both on the flat and hills and ive found boots just pile up extra minutes, but never thought about NOT lacing them up all the way so will try that. backpack i have is berghaus crusader. I just need to change my approach to the training so am soaking up the opinions, cheers lads.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  20. #14
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibedepusib0ss View Post
    Hardly, I thought that entrance is limited to those with commando connections.
    RDF members have done it before

  21. #15
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    I last did the Spean Bridge run in 2006 and there were loads of lads from RDF there. I'm going this saturday. Should be a good laugh!

  22. #16
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    group of us from 27Bn and from the 7bn 2cav did it last year, was my second time doing it. wish something similar was organised over here though, plenty of places to hold it...
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  23. #17
    Lt General Bravo20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooster View Post
    I last did the Spean Bridge run in 2006 and there were loads of lads from RDF there. I'm going this saturday. Should be a good laugh!
    Who is running that event now. It kind of fell by the wayside for a while after it was discovered that the guy organising it lied about his service.

  24. #18
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    hundreds running it last year from many different units from what I could see! was as busy as when i did it back in 2011/2012
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  25. #19
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    The best part about last year's event was that 2 CAV Sqn won the International category

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  27. #20
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    yeah well, we prepared the night before in the pub so it was no surprise!
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  28. #21
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    currently im runnning with and without the weight in runners and combats, both on the flat and hills and ive found boots just pile up extra minutes, but never thought about NOT lacing them up all the way so will try that. backpack i have is berghaus crusader. I just need to change my approach to the training so am soaking up the opinions, cheers lads.
    Did you ever sort out your boot situation?What are you using these days for BPT?
    The modern Irish soldier is better educated,trained and equipped then any any other generation that has gone before.


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  29. #22
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    I ended up doing the run in my barrack boots as they were the most broken in, stuck in a new pair of insoles when i was training, tried the non lace up method but it didnt make much difference. some of the lads wore the haix and found them quite comfortable for the run. the berghaus crusader was good, buf the smaller the backpack the better if you can get a good one that straps down well with decent hip straps then use it. considering jacking the whole thing in at the minute, so on the fence about boots, as in whether to get black ones and stay in or get comfy civvy brown ones and sling my hook. no recruits and no tac training lately, its all about shooting teams BS.
    Last edited by morpheus; 10th March 2017 at 10:38.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  30. #23
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Hold out on the brown boots.If the DF goes brown than there are multiple boot types now available in MoD brown.One of them might suit.A few guys i know are wearing brown going on the ground already.
    Madness wearing Haix OP boots for speed marching/Part 3 etc.They are waaaaaaaaay too heavy.Not to mention the lacing system is shite. You want a light(ish) boot that has good ankle support but one that also has a decent sole so you don't feel every pebble if going off road.A good lacing system helps too.What barrack boots are you using?The current Vipers,the old Amazons or god forbid the 24B's?? I find the Vipers the best I have used so far for BPT in terms of issue boots
    My knee and my shins are f***ed up from my earlier days doing BPT in 24B's and thanks to the old Part 3 with the bergen,so is my back!
    Last edited by apod; 10th March 2017 at 16:55.
    The modern Irish soldier is better educated,trained and equipped then any any other generation that has gone before.


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  31. #24
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    If it helps, here's another vote for the Alt berg Seeker -remarkably good at getting a fat, deluded, sweating pig around the route...

  32. #25
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    I wore the newer vipers, they were good for this
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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