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Thread: Pilatus PC-9M

  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian McGrath View Post
    Well as a rough idea what does it take to keep the EAS going daily in Athlone, there is your rough idea.
    Which would be....?

  2. #177
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    The 5 other AW139’s

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  4. #178
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    be realistic; Athlone is a hop away from men and materials, so it's not a relevant example of how to base aircraft in an austere location. The Malis and Chads of this world would require an operation that would, for example, field a minimum of two airframes per day, with a third on standby/minor maintenance/ short notice readiness. You'd have to have some kind of a shift pattern for all crews and the usual basic engineering support and the ability to rush parts out to the field or beg them off friendly forces. I'm guessing that it would suck up the entire AC fleet of helis in terms of maintenance support to a distant country and it would put pressure on the supply chain. I think the DF is at the point where it knows it could field and support a helicopter but the time is not right because of funds and manpower.

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  6. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    be realistic; Athlone is a hop away from men and materials, so it's not a relevant example of how to base aircraft in an austere location. The Malis and Chads of this world would require an operation that would, for example, field a minimum of two airframes per day, with a third on standby/minor maintenance/ short notice readiness. You'd have to have some kind of a shift pattern for all crews and the usual basic engineering support and the ability to rush parts out to the field or beg them off friendly forces. I'm guessing that it would suck up the entire AC fleet of helis in terms of maintenance support to a distant country and it would put pressure on the supply chain. I think the DF is at the point where it knows it could field and support a helicopter but the time is not right because of funds and manpower.
    Thats really what i know. That the requirement in terms of manpower overseas deployment is beyond their reach and requires a fundamental review of the way the Air Corps currently operates. I wonder could the Air corp support the deployment of a Casa to the med to aid in the refugee crisis, outside of the fact that we dont possess enough Casas

  7. #180
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    not sure about EAS but IRCG have crew (4) plus 2 techs per aircraft on duty and 2 shifts (12 hrs each) to provide 24hr service. Obviously not including backup of supporting bases or reserve airframes.

    So if AC wanted to deploy even one daylight hours a/c could it not be similar? crew plus techs and standby airframe, crew and techs. Not huge numbers realistically.

    If you are talking about deployable airframes I would suggest helis would provide better capability across a range of duties than PC-9s in any of our current missions or previous type missions completed.
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

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  8. #181
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    They aren’t huge numbers until on island services can’t be provided 24/7

    The AC doesn’t have enough pilots, techs or ATC to cover on island taskings

  9. #182
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    i can solve one of those at the flick of a switch - operate AC 24/7 assets, which are effectively civilian tasked assets - from a civilian airport a couple of miles down the road which has its own, 24/7, fully functioning ATC.

    everyone else manages this doubtless wildly complex task...

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  11. #183
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    ah, but the Military hate being told what to do by civvies so an AC detachment would have to have a surfeit (on establishment) of Officers and NCOs, all claiming tech 5 and Flight pay and sub,etc etc (so the pay cost starts getting into Monopoly money from day 1 ) and a duty driver and a cook and a bottle washer and a spare dog and a shed etc, etc......as ropebag said, why does the AC needs it 's own ATC, on an island with 9 civilian airports and 2 spare ones??

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  13. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    i can solve one of those at the flick of a switch - operate AC 24/7 assets, which are effectively civilian tasked assets - from a civilian airport a couple of miles down the road which has its own, 24/7, fully functioning ATC.

    everyone else manages this doubtless wildly complex task...
    That covers the lack of ATC what about the lack of pilots and techs (and no doubt other areas)

  14. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    That covers the lack of ATC what about the lack of pilots and techs (and no doubt other areas)
    Perhaps you could use the money you save on employing, training, certificating etc.. an entire trade stream on those remaining trade streams?

    Obviously I've just pulled that idea out of my arse and there may some more intelligent answer lying around....

  15. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    Perhaps you could use the money you save on employing, training, certificating etc.. an entire trade stream on those remaining trade streams?

    Obviously I've just pulled that idea out of my arse and there may some more intelligent answer lying around....
    Thing your overestimating the savings that would be made replacing a small amount of people. You could also get rid of a small amount of AC CRS people as well.

    This gives you the idea
    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.inde...-35544502.html

  16. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Thing your overestimating the savings that would be made replacing a small amount of people. You could also get rid of a small amount of AC CRS people as well...
    so because doesn't completely solve a problem, despite having some impact on it, it should be ignored?


    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    yes DeV, i'm fully aware of the frankly Argentine state of the DF's funding envelope - not only can i read, but i was there (and was involved in setting up the invitation and offered support package) when the Irish Army failed to turn up for a international training exercise because it couldn't afford to hire a minibus for a week.
    Last edited by ropebag; 7th December 2017 at 11:02.

  17. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    so because doesn't completely solve a problem, despite having some impact on it, it should be ignored?
    Did I say that

    Important thing to consider when looking at relocating be it to Dublin Airport or elsewhere, is how many people will be willing to relocate

  18. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Did I say that

    Important thing to consider when looking at relocating be it to Dublin Airport or elsewhere, is how many people will be willing to relocate
    its 20km away crying out loud - if people won't relocate that far then you're better off without them, you can then pay someone who has some understanding of what it means to join a military force instead of Blessington Flying Club.

    Christ, its no wonder you have such a problem gettting anyone to do anything if you whine like a stuck pig about having to move your place of work from one side of a small city to the other.

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  20. #190
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    Because willingness to relocate has been such an essential part of every other re-organisation.

    We're talking about soldiers, right?

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  22. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    its 20km away crying out loud - if people won't relocate that far then you're better off without them, you can then pay someone who has some understanding of what it means to join a military force instead of Blessington Flying Club.

    Christ, its no wonder you have such a problem gettting anyone to do anything if you whine like a stuck pig about having to move your place of work from one side of a small city to the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by expat01 View Post
    Because willingness to relocate has been such an essential part of every other re-organisation.

    We're talking about soldiers, right?
    Because all AC live within 3 km of Baldonnel do they?

    There is probably a significant proportion who are already living 1 hour with traffic from Baldonnel as it is (as they can’t afford to live closer ie in Wicklow, Kildare, Laois, Offaly, etc. It would suit others.

    Unlike most other countries the vast majority of Irish military personnel live out in private rented/owned Accomodiation (ie not DF provided and/or funded).


    So when you have only 50% of the techs you should and another 15% can’t afford to move closer to their new location or fill the car with petrol to get there what are you going to do.

    You’ll notice I said Dublin Airport or elsewhere. It could be Shannon or elsewhere either.

    It’s decisions like that have the DF the way it is with regard to strength and morale.

    It the base closures had been done in the early 00s as they should have been it wouldn’t be half the issue
    Last edited by DeV; 7th December 2017 at 11:57.

  23. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by expat01 View Post
    ..We're talking about soldiers, right?
    apparently not...

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  25. #193
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    Ropebag is unfortunately right. The whinging and moaning about travelling to work can reach embarrassing proportions in the DF. There is a serious "garrison" mentality in the DF and a lot of people will not move the slightest inch until they can command serious relocation money. In fairness to the soldiery, the relocation rate for DF pers has always been substandard and biased in favour of Officers... I recall a proposal to move some AC aircraft to Shannon in the early Casa days, to establish a base in Shannon Airport, to save the transit time from Baldonnel to the Western patrol zones and the outcry from people in the Don was embarrassing, to say the least. When it was pointed out that a significant proportion of the mechs and pilots came from the West and would be happy to relocate permanently, the outcry faded but the DoD was miserly with funding relocation allowances so the idea died a death. There has been more than a little hypocrisy from the serving personnel about distance to work, especially when some of the same people would travel to the ends of the earth in pursuit of a nixer....

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  27. #194
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    Jesus, I have a 13km drive to work and its normal. Many people I know have 20-30 including my wife. Quite a few have 70km each way.
    People should be grateful they live on an island the size of a small teatowel!

    Soldiers should expect to be posted where the DF requires them.
    But. The army should provide accommodation to those who need it, especially if posting someone to another part of the country.

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  29. #195
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    I feel a poll coming on.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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