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Thread: Pilatus PC-9M

  1. #101
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    How do we use the Pilatus? Does it have a Close Air Support role or can it be fitted for such a role? I see US forces are over the moon with the capability of the Tucano, both range and loiter time and weapons loads. Why do we just require aircraft to train fliers, perhaps the Air Corps and other Services should maximise all equipment to add to the Military cutting edge.
    The PC9s have a limited CAS capability (being that they used unguided rockets and MGs pods). And have been exercised in the role.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The PC9s have a limited CAS capability (being that they used unguided rockets and MGs pods). And have been exercised in the role.
    and how close were the nearest friendly troops - or CIVPOP - when this close air support training took place?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    and how close were the nearest friendly troops - or CIVPOP - when this close air support training took place?
    over the hill and far away

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  5. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    and how close were the nearest friendly troops - or CIVPOP - when this close air support training took place?
    You said it couldn't be used regardless of distance

  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    You said it couldn't be used regardless of distance
    i saId it wouldn't be used by any organisation with the faintest understanding of CAS...

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  8. #106
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    About the only scenario I can see them being cleared to fire is where a supertrawler rams and sinks a NS vessel, leaving 60 people in the water.

    And even then...

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  10. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    About the only scenario I can see them being cleared to fire is where a supertrawler rams and sinks a NS vessel, leaving 60 people in the water.

    And even then...
    yeah, pity the poor people in the water....

    the much vaunted 'limited air-to-air capability' is just as much bollocks - does anyone really imagine that any Irish politician will authorise the firing of a .50, 1200rpm pod mounted, shaking-like-a-shitting-dog gun over an Irish city?

    you'd probably kill as many on the ground with the rounds that didn't hit the target and fell to earth as you'd kill with the falling wreckage...

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  12. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    yeah, pity the poor people in the water....

    the much vaunted 'limited air-to-air capability' is just as much bollocks - does anyone really imagine that any Irish politician will authorise the firing of a .50, 1200rpm pod mounted, shaking-like-a-shitting-dog gun over an Irish city?

    you'd probably kill as many on the ground with the rounds that didn't hit the target and fell to earth as you'd kill with the falling wreckage...
    That is to a great extent, true of any weapon system...but I take your point.
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  13. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    yeah, pity the poor people in the water....

    the much vaunted 'limited air-to-air capability' is just as much bollocks - does anyone really imagine that any Irish politician will authorise the firing of a .50, 1200rpm pod mounted, shaking-like-a-shitting-dog gun over an Irish city?

    you'd probably kill as many on the ground with the rounds that didn't hit the target and fell to earth as you'd kill with the falling wreckage...
    As likely as shooting down an airliner over a US or UK city

  14. #110
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    The point seems to remain that the pc-9m on its own is an expensive toy and not much more.

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  16. #111
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    The PC-9 has an air policing role, specifically enforcing small no fly zones against helicopters and piston/turboprop aircraft.

    It's an extremely limited capability *but* the US and EU nations also utilise helicopters etc. for policing no fly zones, even when they have F-22's and EF's to pick from and try to justify the expense of.

    If I remember correctly, an armed PC-9 did intercept an errant helicopter during the Queens visit.

    The reality is that if that limited capability wasn't in place (and F-15's and EF's a stones throw away) either we could say goodbye to hosting the EU presidency or have to agree to have armed foreign military aircraft based on Irish soil and the resultant conniption of the public.

    It's eh, dare I say it an Irish solution to an Irish problem
    Last edited by pym; 24th November 2016 at 17:49.

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  18. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    The PC-9 has an air policing role, specifically enforcing small no fly zones against helicopters and piston/turboprop aircraft.

    It's an extremely limited capability *but* the US and EU nations also utilise helicopters etc. for policing no fly zones, even when they have F-22's and EF's to pick from and try to justify the expense of.

    If I remember correctly, an armed PC-9 did intercept an errant helicopter during the Queens visit.

    The reality is that if that limited capability wasn't in place (and F-15's and EF's a stones throw away) either we could say goodbye to hosting the EU presidency or have to agree to have armed foreign military aircraft based on Irish soil and the resultant conniption of the public.

    It's eh, dare I say it an Irish solution to an Irish problem
    On the basis of getting on the combat ladder is the A29 Super Tucano a relevant choice given its endurance and weapon load and popularity with combat pilots who have flown it.

  19. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    About the only scenario I can see them being cleared to fire is where a supertrawler rams and sinks a NS vessel, leaving 60 people in the water.

    And even then...
    Your not suggesting the AC are going to machine gun them in the water.

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  21. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    Your not suggesting the AC are going to machine gun them in the water.
    To be honest I was thinking more about the cabinet meeting after the sinking and all the arguments there would be for doing nothing...

    Although now I've got a scene from The Cruel Sea stuck in my head

    Bloody murderer!

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  23. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    On the basis of getting on the combat ladder is the A29 Super Tucano a relevant choice given its endurance and weapon load and popularity with combat pilots who have flown it.
    But it's just as radar-less as the PC9!
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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  25. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    You said it couldn't be used regardless of distance
    Are you designating the exers at Gormo as CAS?

  26. #117
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    If the PC9's had been bought with the express intention of an early-mid life upgrade to enhance their capability to include air-air missile capability for the first time in the AC, then it might have been 60m + upgrade costs worth spending. 60m for primarily training use, with less speed then a Fouga, and a good deal less speed and firepower then a 1956-acquired Vampire and no long-term plan regarding air defence seems a waste.

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  28. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
    If the PC9's had been bought with the express intention of an early-mid life upgrade to enhance their capability to include air-air missile capability for the first time in the AC, then it might have been 60m + upgrade costs worth spending. 60m for primarily training use, with less speed then a Fouga, and a good deal less speed and firepower then a 1956-acquired Vampire and no long-term plan regarding air defence seems a waste.
    The 1956 acquired Vampire was the beginning of the problem for the Irish Air Corps. It was a two seat trainer that replaced the last ever true IAC fighter aircraft (Seafire). Subsequently you've had a trainer replaced by a trainer, replaced by a trainer. All with increasingly less wariness.

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  30. #119
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    What combat capability do the PC's have in restricted visibility?

  31. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    What combat capability do the PC's have in restricted visibility?
    Given that their only sensors are the Mk. 1 eyeball and GPS... limited.

    The inner hardpoints are rated up to 550lb - so weight wise at least, it could carry everything from Mk. 82 JDAM's to Litening pods. The airframe probably has the space for the necessary datalink stuff.

    It wouldn't turn them into Rafales or F-15's, but it would be like going from a boys anti-tank rifle to the Javelin missile.

    God knows what the integration costs would be though.

    Alternatively, there's the SCAR: http://www.airbornetechnologies.at/a...ns/s-c-a-r-pod
    Last edited by pym; 24th November 2016 at 23:18.

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  33. #121
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    Where there is a will there is a way..........

    http://http://motherboard.vice.com/read/low-and-slow#

  34. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    Given that their only sensors are the Mk. 1 eyeball and GPS... limited.

    The inner hardpoints are rated up to 550lb - so weight wise at least, it could carry everything from Mk. 82 JDAM's to Litening pods. The airframe probably has the space for the necessary datalink stuff.

    It wouldn't turn them into Rafales or F-15's, but it would be like going from a boys anti-tank rifle to the Javelin missile.

    God knows what the integration costs would be though.

    Alternatively, there's the SCAR: http://www.airbornetechnologies.at/a...ns/s-c-a-r-pod
    The Tucano can accommodate EGIR, HUD, FLIR, AAM, Orbisat radar, 20mm gun pod, 750lb guided bombs etc. Nobody using them feels embarrassed.

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  36. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    The Tucano can accommodate EGIR, HUD, FLIR, AAM, Orbisat radar, 20mm gun pod, 750lb guided bombs etc. Nobody using them feels embarrassed.
    Ya? , I'd say they would be embarassed if they were your one and only type of interceptor, air superiority, ground attack etc

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  38. #124
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    As things stand ,in AC hands, it is well able to shred stationary passive targets in benign conditions.

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  40. #125
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    The US/Afgani AF are keen to use them in Afganistan because of their endurance and CLOSE (100m) support. They have 24 Super Tucanos described as excellent, able to go on standby rather than shoot and scoot. They also have an in-coming missile warning system.
    Last edited by ancientmariner; 25th November 2016 at 12:10.

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