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  • About the only scenario I can see them being cleared to fire is where a supertrawler rams and sinks a NS vessel, leaving 60 people in the water.

    And even then...

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    • Originally posted by pym View Post
      About the only scenario I can see them being cleared to fire is where a supertrawler rams and sinks a NS vessel, leaving 60 people in the water.

      And even then...
      yeah, pity the poor people in the water....

      the much vaunted 'limited air-to-air capability' is just as much bollocks - does anyone really imagine that any Irish politician will authorise the firing of a .50, 1200rpm pod mounted, shaking-like-a-shitting-dog gun over an Irish city?

      you'd probably kill as many on the ground with the rounds that didn't hit the target and fell to earth as you'd kill with the falling wreckage...

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      • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
        yeah, pity the poor people in the water....

        the much vaunted 'limited air-to-air capability' is just as much bollocks - does anyone really imagine that any Irish politician will authorise the firing of a .50, 1200rpm pod mounted, shaking-like-a-shitting-dog gun over an Irish city?

        you'd probably kill as many on the ground with the rounds that didn't hit the target and fell to earth as you'd kill with the falling wreckage...
        That is to a great extent, true of any weapon system...but I take your point.
        "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
        Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
        Illegitimi non carborundum

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        • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
          yeah, pity the poor people in the water....

          the much vaunted 'limited air-to-air capability' is just as much bollocks - does anyone really imagine that any Irish politician will authorise the firing of a .50, 1200rpm pod mounted, shaking-like-a-shitting-dog gun over an Irish city?

          you'd probably kill as many on the ground with the rounds that didn't hit the target and fell to earth as you'd kill with the falling wreckage...
          As likely as shooting down an airliner over a US or UK city

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          • The point seems to remain that the pc-9m on its own is an expensive toy and not much more.

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            • The PC-9 has an air policing role, specifically enforcing small no fly zones against helicopters and piston/turboprop aircraft.

              It's an extremely limited capability *but* the US and EU nations also utilise helicopters etc. for policing no fly zones, even when they have F-22's and EF's to pick from and try to justify the expense of.

              If I remember correctly, an armed PC-9 did intercept an errant helicopter during the Queens visit.

              The reality is that if that limited capability wasn't in place (and F-15's and EF's a stones throw away) either we could say goodbye to hosting the EU presidency or have to agree to have armed foreign military aircraft based on Irish soil and the resultant conniption of the public.

              It's eh, dare I say it an Irish solution to an Irish problem
              Last edited by pym; 24 November 2016, 18:49.

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              • Originally posted by pym View Post
                The PC-9 has an air policing role, specifically enforcing small no fly zones against helicopters and piston/turboprop aircraft.

                It's an extremely limited capability *but* the US and EU nations also utilise helicopters etc. for policing no fly zones, even when they have F-22's and EF's to pick from and try to justify the expense of.

                If I remember correctly, an armed PC-9 did intercept an errant helicopter during the Queens visit.

                The reality is that if that limited capability wasn't in place (and F-15's and EF's a stones throw away) either we could say goodbye to hosting the EU presidency or have to agree to have armed foreign military aircraft based on Irish soil and the resultant conniption of the public.

                It's eh, dare I say it an Irish solution to an Irish problem
                On the basis of getting on the combat ladder is the A29 Super Tucano a relevant choice given its endurance and weapon load and popularity with combat pilots who have flown it.

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                • Originally posted by pym View Post
                  About the only scenario I can see them being cleared to fire is where a supertrawler rams and sinks a NS vessel, leaving 60 people in the water.

                  And even then...
                  Your not suggesting the AC are going to machine gun them in the water.

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                  • Originally posted by sofa View Post
                    Your not suggesting the AC are going to machine gun them in the water.
                    To be honest I was thinking more about the cabinet meeting after the sinking and all the arguments there would be for doing nothing...

                    Although now I've got a scene from The Cruel Sea stuck in my head

                    Bloody murderer!

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                    • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                      On the basis of getting on the combat ladder is the A29 Super Tucano a relevant choice given its endurance and weapon load and popularity with combat pilots who have flown it.
                      But it's just as radar-less as the PC9!
                      Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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                      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        You said it couldn't be used regardless of distance
                        Are you designating the exers at Gormo as CAS?

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                        • If the PC9's had been bought with the express intention of an early-mid life upgrade to enhance their capability to include air-air missile capability for the first time in the AC, then it might have been 60m + upgrade costs worth spending. 60m for primarily training use, with less speed then a Fouga, and a good deal less speed and firepower then a 1956-acquired Vampire and no long-term plan regarding air defence seems a waste.

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                          • Originally posted by Tempest View Post
                            If the PC9's had been bought with the express intention of an early-mid life upgrade to enhance their capability to include air-air missile capability for the first time in the AC, then it might have been 60m + upgrade costs worth spending. 60m for primarily training use, with less speed then a Fouga, and a good deal less speed and firepower then a 1956-acquired Vampire and no long-term plan regarding air defence seems a waste.
                            The 1956 acquired Vampire was the beginning of the problem for the Irish Air Corps. It was a two seat trainer that replaced the last ever true IAC fighter aircraft (Seafire). Subsequently you've had a trainer replaced by a trainer, replaced by a trainer. All with increasingly less wariness.

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                            • What combat capability do the PC's have in restricted visibility?

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                              • Originally posted by danno View Post
                                What combat capability do the PC's have in restricted visibility?
                                Given that their only sensors are the Mk. 1 eyeball and GPS... limited.

                                The inner hardpoints are rated up to 550lb - so weight wise at least, it could carry everything from Mk. 82 JDAM's to Litening pods. The airframe probably has the space for the necessary datalink stuff.

                                It wouldn't turn them into Rafales or F-15's, but it would be like going from a boys anti-tank rifle to the Javelin missile.

                                God knows what the integration costs would be though.

                                Alternatively, there's the SCAR: http://www.airbornetechnologies.at/a...ns/s-c-a-r-pod
                                Last edited by pym; 25 November 2016, 00:18.

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