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  • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
    Most shipyards are in Labour-voting areas, the aerospace industry is more conservative -voting home counties.

    Follow the money, follow the votes...
    That and the BAE fighter could just be a spoiler attempt at the Franco-German one. And of course there's other issues like the newly announced 2.9% pay increase for the Armed Services, since that's not new money it has to come from within the MOD budget, at this stage I doubt there's any "savings" that can be redirected for that. Could they be waiting for the Autumn Budget to see what the state of the budget is going to look like before letting it become a Program of Record?

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    • Possible. I'd say lots of areas are dreading trying to find a pay increase from "efficiency savings". The circumcision principle (you can cut 5% off anything) can only apply so often.
      Last edited by Flamingo; 24 July 2018, 23:19.
      'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
      'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
      Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
      He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
      http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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      • Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
        Possible. I'd say lots of areas are dreading trying to find a pay increase from "efficiency savings". The circumcision principle (you can cut 5% off anything) can only apply so often.
        I'd say pretty much all the UK departments are sick to death at hearing those two words.

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        • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
          Yeah the 31 was a cheap package, it was a cheap package as the RN budget can't fund a 1-1 23/26 and that budget isn't going to be getting any bigger, and given that the RAN hulls are being built in Australia how is there going to be economies of scale?
          The economies of scale is not in the steel fabrication at the yard level but in the commonality of all the other systems even beyond the choice of CMS that BAE will be involved in.

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          • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
            It seems that they did not have the money, the £1250m for the 5 Type31e vessels was not in the current MoD budget plan.
            Strange how it comes just as they announce £2000m for BAe to develop a new fighter!!!!!!
            Sadly for the RN it looks like they will shrink again with 8 Type-26s replacing the 13 Type-23s.
            The reality is that they are going to have to pony up £2500m for 5 hulls to get anything credible as a post 2020 surface combatant. With 8 Type 26's and the Type 45 how on earth will they provide enough hulls to escort even 1 carrier let alone do all that SLOC work which they will have to address post Brexit. As for the Gen 5 Fighter dream ...

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            • http://https://mobile.navaltoday.com...igate-program/

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              • I wonder is it no Type 31es or No ships !

                Given the Type 31e was to be a low tech affair, basically an OPV with low tech systems, whats stopping them from buying our P60 type from the shelf and adding a few bits , possibly a flight deck. You could have a whole lot of them for a far lower price than even half the cost projected on the Type 31e.
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                • No money by the MoD and it seems the top brass & co were not too impressed either by the Type31e proposals or by the SB, see the interview with Adm. Sir. George Zambellas, former First Sea Lord and former chief of naval staff of the RN

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0zB7Ux2CgI

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                  • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                    I wonder is it no Type 31es or No ships !

                    Given the Type 31e was to be a low tech affair, basically an OPV with low tech systems, whats stopping them from buying our P60 type from the shelf and adding a few bits , possibly a flight deck. You could have a whole lot of them for a far lower price than even half the cost projected on the Type 31e.
                    To a degree I’d agree but the Type 31 was to have frigate armament, big hun, SAMs, SSMs, etc

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                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      To a degree I’d agree but the Type 31 was to have frigate armament, big hun, SAMs, SSMs, etc
                      All while staying within £250million, which everyone always said was going to be "hard" at best.

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                      • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                        All while staying within £250million, which everyone always said was going to be "hard" at best.
                        The South African Valour Class cost about that per ship when inflation is factored in, roughly £270m per ship. OK, it was a 76mm gun, local AAM and CIWS but it showed what could be achieved.

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                        • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                          The South African Valour Class cost about that per ship when inflation is factored in, roughly £270m per ship. OK, it was a 76mm gun, local AAM and CIWS but it showed what could be achieved.
                          True but that's based of the tested MEKO family and designed to keep costs low. I'd be doubtful if a UK group could build it for that price (or that the RN would want it). The 31's have always been all over the place, maybe it's better not to go ahead (as I don't think it would have found much market share anyway).

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                          • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                            True but that's based of the tested MEKO family and designed to keep costs low. I'd be doubtful if a UK group could build it for that price (or that the RN would want it). The 31's have always been all over the place, maybe it's better not to go ahead (as I don't think it would have found much market share anyway).
                            The UK built price is going to be higher because it has has to subsidise keeping the yards open, keeping jobs, keeping “capability”.

                            Every order is going to be smaller is going to smaller and smaller as time goes on and the price will go up and up

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                            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              The UK built price is going to be higher because it has has to subsidise keeping the yards open, keeping jobs, keeping “capability”.

                              Every order is going to be smaller is going to smaller and smaller as time goes on and the price will go up and up
                              True, but they seem wedded to that, I mean it's been that spiral since the 45's, god only knows what their replacement will be given UK history it won't be a 26 hull modified for it, my guess they will start a new program and after a decade end up buying whatever the US is using at that stage.

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                              • The picture seems to be getting clearer, a lot of misinformation being peddaled out there.
                                The process to build the Type 31e frigates is being restarted due to 'insufficient compliant bids' and 'has not been cancelled', according to the MoD.


                                also this


                                Some of the cynicism about the project’s suspension has led to comments that include:
                                • There is no money so technicalities have been used as an excuse to axe the project.
                                • The timing was deliberate political decision so it would emerge just when Parliament went into recess for the summer to minimise the fallout.
                                • BAE Systems/Cammell Laird are incapable of building affordable warships, wanted more money and their Leander bid was too expensive.
                                • Leander is just a smokescreen for BAE Systems who want the project to fail and have used influence in government to undermine the process.
                                • No one can make any profit or a credible ship for the £250M price cap so there were no bids.
                                • The MDP review is in chaos and the MoD is too incompetent to manage the tendering process.


                                None of this is true.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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