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  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Good to see naval shipbuilding going ahead under any circumstances. H&W , now owned by the OLSEN GROUP, doesn't yet identify where the ships will be put together. The agencies mentioned will obviously be teamed at required levels to produce a final ship. It would be nice if it could be done in Belfast and nicer if they could build for us.
    At best I'd say H&W would be doing blocks with final assembly still in Scotland (due to the issue with the cuts of the 26 and politics).

  2. #352
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    https://www.ft.com/content/43ca2fc4-...7-5465a6ce1a00

    Ain't over till the fat lady sings
    Time for another break I think......

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  4. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    I'm presuming that FT got the wrong number for how many ships Babcock are building for us, or has someone missed another P60 being ordered?

  5. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Paywall for me there. What do they say?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  6. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Paywall for me there. What do they say?
    Sometimes if you put the link into Google you can get around the Paywall.

    Basically it's just a comment on the Minister's visit to Appledore, the holding off of the review, a summing up on the plan proposed for module build, the concerns some have made in terms of the cost and capability trade off, and that Appledore is building our ships (apparently 5, guess they got that one wrong)

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  8. #356
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    Well they have built 5 ships for us so far. Currently building the 6th. Just they started building them in 1999....
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  10. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Paywall for me there. What do they say?
    It snot saying anything about our ships, just that the deal on the Type 31s is far from done and that Babcock are part of a consortium bid.

    Not sure how I got access to it, I certainly don't pay for the Financial times!
    Time for another break I think......

  11. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    It snot saying anything about our ships, just that the deal on the Type 31s is far from done and that Babcock are part of a consortium bid.

    Not sure how I got access to it, I certainly don't pay for the Financial times!
    As I said, if you go in through search engines you can get into the story (not certain how that works tbh).

  12. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    As I said, if you go in through search engines you can get into the story (not certain how that works tbh).
    just type in "babcock type 31" and the ft should be the third one down

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  14. #360
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    So Babcock have released their proposal for the 31 the Arrowhead 140, based off the Danish Iver Huitfeldt hullform:
    https://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...mpetition.html
    https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/bab...e-competition/

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  16. #361
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    Another bit from Babcock themselves regarding the design:
    https://www.babcockteam31.com/wp-con...0-Brochure.pdf

    Looks a good buy for £250m.

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  18. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Another bit from Babcock themselves regarding the design:
    https://www.babcockteam31.com/wp-con...0-Brochure.pdf

    Looks a good buy for £250m.
    Things are looking poor for Babcock when the only vessel they can refer to in their portfolio is one of four Irish Naval Vessels. While they are top class, I would be interested to hear what the RN think of them.

    In other news the MOD in the UK is trying to secure funding to retain in 'Fleet Readiness' the Batch 2 River Class OPVs to be used in UK waters after Brexit, very high on the wish list it would seem!
    Time for another break I think......

  19. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    In other news the MOD in the UK is trying to secure funding to retain in 'Fleet Readiness' the Batch 2 River Class OPVs to be used in UK waters after Brexit, very high on the wish list it would seem!
    I presume you mean the Batch 1's being retained, since the Batch 2's are replacing them? But it would make sense to keep them in readiness if the funding is there, but there's also the issue of manpower for them still I would think.

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  21. #364
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    https://www.parliament.uk/business/p...-03-13/132371/

    The Ministry of Defence has been allocated £12.7 million in 2018-19 for essential EU exit preparations. This will fund preserving three Off-Shore Patrol Vessels, should they be needed to control and enforce UK waters and fisheries.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  23. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Things are looking poor for Babcock when the only vessel they can refer to in their portfolio is one of four Irish Naval Vessels. While they are top class, I would be interested to hear what the RN think of them.
    It's in line with them asking for one of the P60's to attend the London show a while back, maybe they are hoping we'll look at an even more bare bones version for Eithne's replacement?

  24. #366
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    It is th eonly show in town for Babcock Appledore at present. They have little else on th ebooks except hopes for P31 replacement.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  26. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    In other news the MOD in the UK is trying to secure funding to retain in 'Fleet Readiness' the Batch 2 River Class OPVs to be used in UK waters after Brexit, very high on the wish list it would seem!
    Given that they have a big funding hole I wonder if this is just to set the scene for the postponement (or cancellation) of the Type31e program?
    That the MoD will try and sell the RN the notion that the Type 23s will initial be replaced by re-activated Batch 1 Rivers. Naturally with the promise that the Type31e will come towards the end of the 2020s rather than at the start!

  27. #368
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    The Batch 2s being ordered have a direct link with the TOBA with the MOD (basically if there were no MOD orders they would have to pay them to stay open and receive nothing in return).

  28. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Given that they have a big funding hole I wonder if this is just to set the scene for the postponement (or cancellation) of the Type31e program?
    That the MoD will try and sell the RN the notion that the Type 23s will initial be replaced by re-activated Batch 1 Rivers. Naturally with the promise that the Type31e will come towards the end of the 2020s rather than at the start!
    The 31's seem to be the next great hope for getting Export orders given that 26 seems to have priced itself out of the market and is still 5+ years from operation, so no I don't think the 31's are going to be cancelled if for no other reason that while the UK public might just see a grey ship with a gun, the US particularly would know the RN's capability would have been reduced.

    The 31 will happen and hopefully not the BAE version, though that still doesn't get you around the funding/manpower issues that the RN is still dealing with.

  29. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Another bit from Babcock themselves regarding the design:
    https://www.babcockteam31.com/wp-con...0-Brochure.pdf

    Looks a good buy for £250m.
    It is certainly better than the other offerings put up so far - but I would guess it may be a little austere at that price. For CMS it is using TACTICOS rather than COMBATSS-21 probably on cost grounds. Though I guess MT30 will be the main propulsion. With MOTS gear and with 5700t to play with there is plenty of room for growth.

  30. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    Given that they have a big funding hole I wonder if this is just to set the scene for the postponement (or cancellation) of the Type31e program?
    That the MoD will try and sell the RN the notion that the Type 23s will initial be replaced by re-activated Batch 1 Rivers. Naturally with the promise that the Type31e will come towards the end of the 2020s rather than at the start!
    I think the idea being they won't have to build extra OPVs and might have funding for Type 31s instead. The big problem the UK has had in relation to naval ship builds is lack of overseas orders of types in service and as a result all the R&D has to be funded from within.

    The availability of good quality ex RN vessels has upset their potential export market and if the remaining Type 23s come on the market anytime soon any export orders for Type 31es will disappear.
    Time for another break I think......

  31. #372
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    I agree that the only export ship will be ex-RN: the Type 23 is an excellent vessel and with the latest modification they will be snapped up when they come on the market. I think the speed at which they scrapped the Type 22 Batch 3's was to ensure they were not available at a later date on the export market. Unfortunately for the Brits the Yanks have a large stock of ships which can be supplied fast and cheap!

    That the UK public fall for whatever comes out of their politicians mouths continues to amaze me. The lack of overseas orders will not change with the Type31e, most nations that can afford such a ship have their own ship building they want to protect and for the rest there are low cost producers. Even if everyone goes on about modern modular shipbuilding there is still a massive amount of manual work in putting a ship together and that is where a lot of the costs are. Look at what the Dutch Damen Group do: they get the majority of the ship built in low cost countries, Romania, Vietnam, Indonesia etc. That is why they have been able to compete with the Korean and Chinese producers. This is something no British shipbuilder will be able to do. Even when the Danish were building they sub-contracted out to yards in the Baltics.

    The problem is money and even if the UK claims to spend the 2% recommended by NATO if you strip out war-spending (money spent fight wars: Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan), take out the cost of the nuclear forces and remove the cost of trying to snuggle up to the US (trying to be a big player on the world stage) then the percentage is much closer to 1% than it is to 2%. So the poor RN has to suffer and its decline looks set to continue.

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  33. #373
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    http://nextnavy.com/is-hiis-missing-...it-a-type-31e/

    Article asking if the Arrowhead 140 Type 31e variant of the Iver Huitfeldt maybe in the running for the USN FFG(X) programme due to the recent disappearance of Huntingdon Ingalls Industries NSC variant from the public domain in recent months.

  34. #374
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    I'd be really surprised if the 31 was in the mix for the USN frigate.

  35. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    http://nextnavy.com/is-hiis-missing-...it-a-type-31e/

    Article asking if the Arrowhead 140 Type 31e variant of the Iver Huitfeldt maybe in the running for the USN FFG(X) programme due to the recent disappearance of Huntingdon Ingalls Industries NSC variant from the public domain in recent months.
    It is all speculation based upon HII not showing a model in Jan, but they have been pushing several versions of the NCS for years and this is suspected to be the bases for their bid.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OJZ8eB_mPA

    As for the Iver Huitfeldt its diesel engines eliminate it from the race and also the number of STANFLEX modules is limited as their production ended in the 90's. Also as none of the Type31e vessels has been design they are also eliminated as the USN is looking for something based upon a proven hull/system. Why HII would need to take a foreign design given that they are leading US shipbuilder does not make sense.

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