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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    The Caribbean guard ship was normally a type 42 destroyer. Then they started deploying RFAs..... because the numbers of fighting ships is so low
    Yes a T42 would have been just the ticket in the Caribbean just now!
    'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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    • Originally posted by spider View Post
      Yes a T42 would have been just the ticket in the Caribbean just now!
      Very true

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      • The last RN Type 42 Destroyer hauled down her flag in 2013 after 40 years service for the type. She was an Austerity design shortened from the actual requirement to save money. In all two were lost in combat and two lost through accidents. Some redesign provided improvements in war fighting , one shot down a missile heading for a US Navy ship during the Gulf War. Later Batch had a strengthening beam welded either side along her amidships adding 50 tonnes DW and increasing her width by 2 Ft.
        She was a child of Political cuts requiring resuscitation by the professionals, and a certain amount of making do.

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        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
          The last RN Type 42 Destroyer hauled down her flag in 2013 after 40 years service for the type. She was an Austerity design shortened from the actual requirement to save money. In all two were lost in combat and two lost through accidents. Some redesign provided improvements in war fighting , one shot down a missile heading for a US Navy ship during the Gulf War. Later Batch had a strengthening beam welded either side along her amidships adding 50 tonnes DW and increasing her width by 2 Ft.
          She was a child of Political cuts requiring resuscitation by the professionals, and a certain amount of making do.
          History could well repeat itself

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          • Looks like only one of either Venator or Arrowhead will even make it to the bidding process, not both.

            Janes | The latest defence and security news from Janes - the trusted source for defence intelligence

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            • Originally posted by Herald View Post
              Looks like only one of either Venator or Arrowhead will even make it to the bidding process, not both.

              http://www.janes.com/article/74374/b...-31e-programme
              Given that BAe have pretty much publicly stated they have feck all interest in the project and that it shouldn't go ahead anyway I'd rule their options out as well. Of what's left it's this team up (suggestions that the Venator has more work done on the design and more RN support).

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              • So we have BAE going in with Cammell Laird with "Leander" which is going to be a stretched Cutlass design, while reports that BMT and Babcock might be ditching the Venator and building some of it's aspects into the Arrowhead design?

                Also reports in the Times today that Chile and Brazil have got some notice that there might be 2 23's coming available next year with the other 3 by 2023 (along with the LPD's on sale as well). With the manpower and budget issues I can see some political logic for that but dropping the surface fleet to that level is going to be "interesting", and puts more pressure on the 31 getting through the development cycle on time.

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                • The RN disposal of ships is curious. The fleet of type 23's were scheduled to be in service until 2023 for HMS Argyll, ranging out to 2035 for last of class HMS St.Albans. New Build projects seem to hasten disposal of ships with credible life and function remaining. Is it that Industry is pressurising warship development and using louder voices to influence introduction of newer designs into service prematurely. As pointed out, newer vessels and technology, cause reduction in fleet size by trying to balance frugal budgets.

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                  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                    The RN disposal of ships is curious. The fleet of type 23's were scheduled to be in service until 2023 for HMS Argyll, ranging out to 2035 for last of class HMS St.Albans. New Build projects seem to hasten disposal of ships with credible life and function remaining. Is it that Industry is pressurising warship development and using louder voices to influence introduction of newer designs into service prematurely. As pointed out, newer vessels and technology, cause reduction in fleet size by trying to balance frugal budgets.
                    I don't think it's "curious" I think the MOD has a giant blackhole once more in their budgets and have cut so deep that there's nothing left to cut but bone. Coupled with the manpower crisis the RN is already facing and I suppose at least might be thinking "well we can't man them, they cost money in harbour and they've only got a few years left, cut now and pray that the budgets don't get worse". Given the history of cuts the RN and the other services have had it's not the best choice, but I think they are out of "good options" at this stage short of significant budget changes in the UK Defence budget.

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                    • I Think the RN has realised that running ships into the ground is not the better option as costs of keeping them serviceable long term don't add up especially when there are new build s in the wings.

                      The River Class replacements are on the way and they need the crews ....but it would seem the replacements will be doing a lot of the work of the Type 23s over seas until the Type 31 (e) comes on stream .

                      The export version is big OPV crossed with low range frigate.
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                      • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                        I Think the RN has realised that running ships into the ground is not the better option as costs of keeping them serviceable long term don't add up especially when there are new build s in the wings.

                        The River Class replacements are on the way and they need the crews ....but it would seem the replacements will be doing a lot of the work of the Type 23s over seas until the Type 31 (e) comes on stream .

                        The export version is big OPV crossed with low range frigate.
                        Well given the 23's are already beyond their design lifespan already, I don't particularly see why other than the blackhole and manpower issues as to why the 23's would have to go before their replacements are even designed let alone first steel.

                        As for the Rivers, thought their manpower is coming from the Batch 1's to an extent? And with Brexit I wouldn't assume that they would be available for Overseas if the UK/EU have Fisheries disputes.

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                        • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post

                          As for the Rivers, thought their manpower is coming from the Batch 1's to an extent? And with Brexit I wouldn't assume that they would be available for Overseas if the UK/EU have Fisheries disputes.
                          Don't think EU have much to worry about

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                          • Bloody czechoslovakians...
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                            • Well maybe it's a sign he's hoping for a Velvet Divorce?

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                              • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                                Well maybe it's a sign he's hoping for a Velvet Divorce?
                                Scotland get the farmland, England and Wales get the industry and neo-nazis? One uses the Euro, the other uses the GB£? Scotlands economy eventually passing out that of England and Wales?
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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