Thanks Thanks:  90
Likes Likes:  226
Dislikes Dislikes:  2
Page 1 of 14 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 334
  1. #1
    C/S Galloglass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    388
    Post Thanks / Like

    Royal Navy Type 31

    Just came across this article about the Type 31. On reading it I was surprised to read :

    "One school of thought is that the Type 31s could be on the slipway sooner rather than later. For budget and other reasons, building the Type 31s is not going to be just tacked on the end of the Type 26 program, some of which could come very early in the next decade, said industry executives who asked not to be named.

    A joint MoD/industry team is already conducting early work on the Type 31 program, including looking at potential designs to fulfill the likely requirement as well as possible production schedules. One option could be a cut-down version of the 7,200-ton Type 26.

    Other British designs being considered could include modified versions of the Khareef corvette already built by BAE for Oman and an offshore patrol vessel built for the Irish Navy by the Babcock International-owned Appledore shipyard in southwest England"

    http://www.defensenews.com/story/def...hips/81440620/

  2. Thanks Sarsfield thanked for this post
  3. #2
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    889
    Post Thanks / Like
    In terms of when it might be built, I think one of the factors is the "GP" 23's are the closer to end of life than the ASW ones, so perhaps the order might come in sooner (but I doubt it given the 26 issues). If you mean adding in our 60's I think the writer just went and looked at what was being built in UK yards and added that in. There's no way a 31 design would be based off the P60 design.

  4. Thanks Galloglass thanked for this post
    Likes DeV, Galloglass liked this post
  5. #3
    Captain
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,703
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    ...There's no way a 31 design would be based off the P60 design.
    thats certainly my understanding - everything i've read and heard says T31 is going to be a 5000 tonne Frigate with hanger and Merlin sized flight deck, CAMM VLS, the replacement TLAM VLS, Type 997 radar, 5 inch Gun and Phalanx.

    from the people i've spoken to, both PM and SoS Def have said 'it will be a proper fighting warship'.

  6. Thanks Galloglass thanked for this post
    Likes hptmurphy liked this post
  7. #4
    C/S Galloglass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    388
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    thats certainly my understanding - everything i've read and heard says T31 is going to be a 5000 tonne Frigate with hanger and Merlin sized flight deck, CAMM VLS, the replacement TLAM VLS, Type 997 radar, 5 inch Gun and Phalanx.

    from the people i've spoken to, both PM and SoS Def have said 'it will be a proper fighting warship'.
    That's why I was surprised by the mention of the Irish ships.....But if the RN does decide to design Fighty P60s (for whaterer reason) it would be interesting to see what they come up with.

  8. #5
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    889
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Galloglass View Post
    That's why I was surprised by the mention of the Irish ships.....But if the RN does decide to design Fighty P60s (for whaterer reason) it would be interesting to see what they come up with.
    As Ropebag suggested, the proposed 31 is going to be a much heavier warship than anything the 60 design could be stretched to be.

  9. #6
    Major General ODIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    3,801
    Post Thanks / Like
    10 extra meters, a heli deck and hanger and different mast would surely add a couple of KG
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

  10. Likes Galloglass liked this post
  11. #7
    Rittmeister Herald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    782
    Post Thanks / Like
    The BMT design(Venator 110) mentioned in the article is visually similar to the p60'S.

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/coul...light-frigate/

  12. Likes Galloglass liked this post
  13. #8
    Major General ODIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    3,801
    Post Thanks / Like
    http://www.bmtdsl.co.uk/media/610225...al%20Brief.pdf

    How about one (or two) of these as P70 :P
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

  14. Likes Galloglass liked this post
  15. #9
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    859
    Post Thanks / Like

    Choices By the Experts

    Quote Originally Posted by ODIN View Post
    http://www.bmtdsl.co.uk/media/610225...al%20Brief.pdf

    How about one (or two) of these as P70 :P
    We have five newish OPV's that need some adaption for self Defence. While we may need further replacements, we need to finalise an MRV addition to the fleet. Mrv's are big and need a decent Home port and be capable of being their own Depot, Repair, and barracks while in the dedicated exclusive berth with security, the latter provided by the ships staff (Navy/Army) while in port. The Mighty "O" HMS Ocean is coming up for disposal, she would fill many gaps for us and the EU on all fronts including military ops and humanitarian interventions. She can take and deploy an Embarked Military Force plus a whole rotary airforce of 8 or more large helicopters. We need 300m of quaywall and 7 +/-M of depth in the berth. We could manage with a new Naval establishment of 1600 all ranks to include 200 Naval Air for our helicopters.
    Last edited by ancientmariner; 31st March 2016 at 10:22.

  16. Likes Banner liked this post
  17. #10
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,553
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    We have five newish OPV's that need some adaption for self Defence. While we may need further replacements, we need to finalise an MRV addition to the fleet. Mrv's are big and need a decent Home port and be capable of being their own Depot, Repair, and barracks while in the dedicated exclusive berth with security, the latter provided by the ships staff (Navy/Army) while in port. The Mighty "O" HMS Ocean is coming up for disposal, she would fill many gaps for us and the EU on all fronts including military ops and humanitarian interventions. She can take and deploy an Embarked Military Force plus a whole rotary airforce of 8 or more large helicopters. We need 300m of quaywall and 7 +/-M of depth in the berth. We could manage with a new Naval establishment of 1600 all ranks to include 200 Naval Air for our helicopters.
    Something like Ocean is overkill for what we need, although it would be an excellent capability to have (with regard to all it can carry, self defence capabilities etc). However, with regard to damage control remember it is built to commercial standards (not naval).

    It wouldn't necessarily need to be loaded in Haulbowline, in fact due to constraints (eg bridges, vehicle turning space etc) it may be better to load in Ringaskiddy or Dublin.

    As you say you would still need a facility to dock in Haulbowline for the general maintenance, provisioning, etc (it would make zero sense to have a new base just for 1 vessel).

    The crew is 285 but let's say we could get that down to 200 with a bit of lean manning. We could make the NS establishment 10,000 if you wanted to but if the strength is still only 800......

  18. #11
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    859
    Post Thanks / Like
    I would suggest Dublin as a permanent base with appropriate visits to Cork. The vessel is available from about 2018. Our establishment is puny and needs to almost double to 1600. We could do it and it would cover all Military type movements especially of hardware. We need a professional evaluation of how useful a Navy we need and emulate some of our European mainland neighbours. Recruiting could be by a reversion to an open door policy at all posts with an appropriate medical.

  19. #12
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    889
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    I would suggest Dublin as a permanent base with appropriate visits to Cork. The vessel is available from about 2018. Our establishment is puny and needs to almost double to 1600. We could do it and it would cover all Military type movements especially of hardware. We need a professional evaluation of how useful a Navy we need and emulate some of our European mainland neighbours. Recruiting could be by a reversion to an open door policy at all posts with an appropriate medical.
    By 2018, Ocean would have nearly 25 years usage, and the RN has used her fairly heavily, is she going to get anymore heavy maintenance since her 2014 work and her decommissioning? Given that the RN has some bit of a history of selling decommissioned hulls that have "problems" (Bay, U class), what condition will she be in by 2018?

  20. Likes DeV liked this post
  21. #13
    Captain
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,703
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    By 2018, Ocean would have nearly 25 years usage, and the RN has used her fairly heavily, is she going to get anymore heavy maintenance since her 2014 work and her decommissioning? Given that the RN has some bit of a history of selling decommissioned hulls that have "problems" (Bay, U class), what condition will she be in by 2018?
    From what I've seen, she's been used very heavily, and very hard - she will however still be in decent nick: she'd, imv, be useful for perhaps 5 years of lightish operations without the need to spend much ( with much as relative to the costs of running a 20,000 ton ship...).

    She would, for example, make a very good disaster relief/transport/avaition/ amphib training vessel for a set period of time - she'd be a tool to look at various types of operations to decide what was desirable and what was doable. What she's not is INS Vikrant#2, and if you kept her for 30 years she'd have spent most of her service in the body shop and cost a fortune...

  22. #14
    C/S
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    3,022
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    We have five newish OPV's that need some adaption for self Defence. While we may need further replacements, we need to finalise an MRV addition to the fleet. Mrv's are big and need a decent Home port and be capable of being their own Depot, Repair, and barracks while in the dedicated exclusive berth with security, the latter provided by the ships staff (Navy/Army) while in port. The Mighty "O" HMS Ocean is coming up for disposal, she would fill many gaps for us and the EU on all fronts including military ops and humanitarian interventions. She can take and deploy an Embarked Military Force plus a whole rotary airforce of 8 or more large helicopters. We need 300m of quaywall and 7 +/-M of depth in the berth. We could manage with a new Naval establishment of 1600 all ranks to include 200 Naval Air for our helicopters.
    is this a piss take.

  23. #15
    Major General ODIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    3,801
    Post Thanks / Like
    Pardon my naval ignorance, but Ocean is MASSIVE, 203.4 m and 21,500 t of massive. Putting it in perspective, that is over twice as long and 11 time heavier than the P60 class. Sure, the capability it would add would be nice, but our lack of a fleet air arm, and experience in operating something on this scale make it a totally unrealistic and impractical prospect in my humble opinion.

    Being realistic, something in the frigate category in terms of size and weight would be much more suitable. Now I will patiently await a mod to split the last few posts off and put them into a thread regarding the EPV for the NS.
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

  24. Likes Sparky42, Turkey, Galloglass liked this post
  25. #16
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    859
    Post Thanks / Like
    absolutely not. The Naval Service is imbued with capability and awaiting an opportunity to be a blue water Navy. Most Navies do mundane coast guard policing on fishing, contraband etc. We are also suppose to Defend, Support, and Protect, which requires ships such as L12 or a good version of it. Out from under the Air Corps , there is no reason why we couldn't operate our own rotary air branch, even up to Chinook size . We have taken our ships world wide, China, Great Lakes, USA, Ecuador, Brazil,and circumnavigation of South America via Cape Horn. There is no limit to a seaman's horizon given moderate finance and remember a Navy is always operational and ready to go. Loads of bang for your buck.

  26. Thanks Turkey thanked for this post
    Likes Turkey liked this post
  27. #17
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    889
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    absolutely not. The Naval Service is imbued with capability and awaiting an opportunity to be a blue water Navy. Most Navies do mundane coast guard policing on fishing, contraband etc. We are also suppose to Defend, Support, and Protect, which requires ships such as L12 or a good version of it. Out from under the Air Corps , there is no reason why we couldn't operate our own rotary air branch, even up to Chinook size . We have taken our ships world wide, China, Great Lakes, USA, Ecuador, Brazil,and circumnavigation of South America via Cape Horn. There is no limit to a seaman's horizon given moderate finance and remember a Navy is always operational and ready to go. Loads of bang for your buck.
    There are plenty of steps that could and should be taken before procuring such a ship/capacitycapability, right now it would be very much a White Elephant, particularly if it's operational lifespan is sub 10 years at the time of retirement. How far we have gone on tours is completely different to maintaining a force in an operation for example. There are plenty of smart potential increases and worthwhile investments that we could look at, Ocean isn't one of them IMO.

  28. Likes Galloglass liked this post
  29. #18
    Recruit
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    8
    Post Thanks / Like
    I agree with Ancient Mariner . HMS Ocean will be 20 years old in 2 years time albeit having had a recent £65 Million refit with still plenty of service in her.
    I see her as providing many many opportunities for development and increased capability for all 3 IDF Services and will provide a goal for all 3 services to increase capability as we are forecast to have population growth and GDP growth.

    Lets all pull together with a "Can-do " attitude and philosophy and grow , extend our capabilities .If we look for ways out and see problems , any project will fail to achieve our potential.Think what this ship could do for all of us and for the nation .Are we not celebrating our past history just now ( 1916 )??

    If we look over the horizon and think big we can have an even more proud IDF with outstanding assets always manned and equipped for the future.

  30. #19
    Major General
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    There are plenty of steps that could and should be taken before procuring such a ship/capacitycapability, right now it would be very much a White Elephant, particularly if it's operational lifespan is sub 10 years at the time of retirement. How far we have gone on tours is completely different to maintaining a force in an operation for example. There are plenty of smart potential increases and worthwhile investments that we could look at, Ocean isn't one of them IMO.
    What would it cost to run her, probably consume a fair bit of NS share of DF budget, cant see other depts subsidising her from their budgets. Something like this is a non runner from any amount of perspectives.

  31. #20
    C/S
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    3,022
    Post Thanks / Like
    it would take pretty much the entire naval service to man the Ocean, not to mention the ship could accomodate the entire AC helicopter fleet and every soldier in the Df earmarked for overseas service.

    oh and its for sale cause its worn out.

  32. Likes The real Jack liked this post
  33. #21
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    889
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by paul g View Post
    it would take pretty much the entire naval service to man the Ocean, not to mention the ship could accomodate the entire AC helicopter fleet and every soldier in the Df earmarked for overseas service.

    oh and its for sale cause its worn out.
    Hell, are the 139's even equipped for salt corrosion, or folding blades etc? But those are technical questions. the bottom line is as the majority agree it's a well out there suggestion.

  34. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  35. #22
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    859
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by paul g View Post
    it would take pretty much the entire naval service to man the Ocean, not to mention the ship could accomodate the entire AC helicopter fleet and every soldier in the Df earmarked for overseas service.

    oh and its for sale cause its worn out.
    Not so it is for sale because of the advent of the two Carriers. She would be cheap enough to run as she has two standard Pielstick engines delivering a moderate 18knots top speed. Likely 16knots in normal service. When her seagoing life is over, after her refit maybe 20 years, she can still be a Naval barracks in Dublin, and a Naval deck for rotary use,VTOL in emergencies, and accommodation as required.

  36. #23
    C/S
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    3,022
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Not so it is for sale because of the advent of the two Carriers. She would be cheap enough to run as she has two standard Pielstick engines delivering a moderate 18knots top speed. Likely 16knots in normal service. When her seagoing life is over, after her refit maybe 20 years, she can still be a Naval barracks in Dublin, and a Naval deck for rotary use,VTOL in emergencies, and accommodation as required.
    So what you're saying is that not only is it too big for our purposes, not having enough sailors to man it, helicopters or troops to use it effectively but it's slow as well.

    Are you smoking crack, or are you a piss taker.

  37. Likes The real Jack, CTU, apod liked this post
  38. #24
    C/S Galloglass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    388
    Post Thanks / Like
    I think Ancient just doesn't want anyone talking about anything like a Type 31 Paul.
    Particularly anything similar to a Khareef (modified River) and especially a modified P60.....I think it's a more "interesting" topic myself.

    Ancient wants an MRV.....everything else must die (smiley)
    Last edited by Galloglass; 1st April 2016 at 12:42.

  39. #25
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    889
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Galloglass View Post
    I think Ancient just doesn't want anyone talking about anything like a Type 31 Paul.
    Particularly anything similar to a Khareef (modified River) and especially a modified P60.....I think it's a more "interesting" topic myself.

    Ancient wants an MRV.....everything else must die (smiley)
    If the "MRV" that is to replace Eithne got down graded to "just" a Frigate type, depending on the price and the upgradeability (for the CAMM etc) the Venator design might be a runner I would think particularly if we could leverage off a 5 ship production line (depending on costs of course). In terms of the Khareef does it suffer from the usually issue of the crew accommodation being less than what European Navies have moved to now? And if so could that be brought up to "acceptable" levels without impacting the design even more?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •