Originally posted by Sparky42
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Royal Navy Type 31
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Given the variety and amount of threats to World Peace and The Maritime environment there is a constant need for useful ships--hence the growth and possibilities for the enhanced OPV, even to the point of making versions of them such as AS, AA, and ASU or even multirole. The British problem is a combination of slow final production often highlighted in the media and in Parliament. Too much money is spent getting ready to spend more. Building front line ships over a number of parliaments is a recipe for getting what you didn't ask for in the first place. Foreign sales are often predicated on a turnkey contract to include total ship training including Sea Training. Nobody will want a ship that is almost two decades in gestation.
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Some interesting comments here referencing the P60's.
In 2023, the Royal Navy hopes the first of its new Type 31 frigates will hit the waves to replace HMS Argyll, the first of 13 Type 23 frigates scheduled to begin retiring that year, with another to retire every year until 2035. The new vessels will add desperately needed...
Whether the Type 31 will even be proper frigate is up for debate. One possibility for the frigate is a stretched version of the Samuel Beckett-class offshore patrol vessel built by Babcock Marine, currently in service with the Irish Navy. Another is a BAE-built enlargement of the Al Shamikh-class corvette in service with Oman — renamed Cutlass — or an enlarged River-class offshore patrol vessel.
Last edited by Herald; 30 August 2017, 20:37.
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Originally posted by Herald View PostSome interesting comments here referencing the P60's.
In 2023, the Royal Navy hopes the first of its new Type 31 frigates will hit the waves to replace HMS Argyll, the first of 13 Type 23 frigates scheduled to begin retiring that year, with another to retire every year until 2035. The new vessels will add desperately needed...
Also mentions Project Spartan, first I've heard of that. Some detail here:
http://www.stellersystems.co.uk/news...rpose-frigate/
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Originally posted by Sparky42 View PostI'd laugh if it ended up being a modified Beckett, but I doubt it, the Spartan I also think is a none runner, think BMT is teaming up with Columbia to build a Venator 110 so perhaps I'd rate it or the BAE design more likely.
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Originally posted by Herald View PostThere would probably be an outcry if it was a "facking elongated oirish fisheries patrol vessel" alright.
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Originally posted by Sparky42 View PostIt's not just that, but I'd imagine a fiar bit of work would need to go into the design if it ended up trying to be a "Light Frigate" type. The 31 still doesn't really make sense to me, I mean clearly the 26 program has massive issues, but still you have an all up design, why then do this instead of the "GP" versions.
Whats the Budget here realistically? £250m, by the time they're built, £350m?
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Originally posted by Herald View PostProbably low budget, brexit, a realisation that nobody is going to buy BAE's overpriced tat and that "export" is a way of selling it to the Government that at least gets some type of FFNW hulls in the water?
Whats the Budget here realistically? £250m, by the time they're built, £350m?
In terms of what 31 ends up as, I'd say it all depends on a couple of factors, a) is it an OPV+, or a Light Frigate, and b) are they going to give it to BAE and face the normal spiral or go outside them to one of the other builders (think I've seen suggestions that they are looking at an English yard this time)
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I see that Beckett is going to DSEI this year:
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Originally posted by Herald View PostProbably low budget, brexit, a realisation that nobody is going to buy BAE's overpriced tat and that "export" is a way of selling it to the Government that at least gets some type of FFNW hulls in the water?
Whats the Budget here realistically? £250m, by the time they're built, £350m?
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Originally posted by Anzac View PostThe budget is £2 Billion for six or circa £330m a unit. "Export" mmmm ..... lets see ..... the Type 31 coming onto the market at the same time as the 4200 tonne FFX-III Batch 2 with MFR-ISRT active phased array radar networked into CEC/NIFC-CA, CAPTAS 4 and UMS 4110 sonar, 24-32 Mk41 VLS, 8 Harpoon Tubes and a Mk. 45 Mod 4 up front with MT-30 propulsion so to keep up with USN Carrier Strike Groups, for the same sort of money? Yeah ... you have good reason to be a skeptic about the Type 31's export prospects.
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Originally posted by Sparky42 View PostWon't the French and Italian "low end Frigate" designs also be coming on stream around about when the 31 enters production, but hasn't the UK been talking up chances of exports of everything? I seem to remember there once being a suggestion that the Saudi's would buy some export 45's, and the list for the 26 was fairly large at one stage as well...
With the Batch III FFX a scalable evolution of the HDF-3500 design and building on the current Daegu Class Batch II the buyer is getting also a peer level intermediate frigate capability with room for growth to 48 VLS for circa USD$550 or €465m based on the contracted price to the Korean government - that is the difference that efficient superyards, competitive procurement management, type evolution over production batches, consistent build sequencing and economies of scale can bring which does not seem to be happening with how the UK is going about its builds at present I'm afraid.
Thailand has recently received a DW-3000 Daegu batch II variant for a contracted €345m or USD$410m - and it has parity to upgraded RAN & RNZN Anzacs - this is what the Type 31 will be competing against on the export market and the French and Italian offerings compound this issue. Countries that do not wish to engage in job creation schemes and build their own frigates are avoiding frigate projects that have that as their rationale.
The Saudi's would snap up AB's if they were allowed them ....
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France pretty much seemed to have covered the ‘light frigate’/ ‘fisheries patrol plus’ vessel idea years ago, with their 'Floreal Class'. Said vessels of 2,600 tons (2,950 loaded), 93m long and built to commercial ship standards, and with a main gun (100mm) and two secondary guns (20mm) – so pretty similar in approach as the NS later P50/P60s.
However, they interestingly also carry ‘only’ a pair of anti-ship missiles, and a pair of SAM launchers, decoys and a helicopter and hanger.
So the Floreals are an interesting comparison for potential upgrades to NS ships if desired, or for future NS vessels, if a modicum of anti-ship and anti-air defence capability was sought, and similar to the British Government’s concept of a lighter/cheaper frigate or ‘OPV plus’?
See below for an article/blog about a 2014 offer (via STX France) of an improved Floreal Class (suitable for low to intermediate threat environment) for a Philippine Navy requirement for a ‘light frigate’ and links and details of some of the competing offers.
(This blog has since been “rebooted” in January 24, 2016 after the manufacturer published the brochure of the upgraded Floreal. You can access the rebooted blog here: New Frigate Biddin…
Sorry, here is the 2016 update of above article/blog - with details of the proposed new generation Floreal Class from STX France (hope this hasn't been mentioned already)..
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