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Royal Navy Type 31

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  • When was the last time the U.K. sold a vessel (based on a RN design) (not retired RN) to an export customer?

    OPVs I think they have recently what about bigger?

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    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
      When was the last time the U.K. sold a vessel (based on a RN design) (not retired RN) to an export customer?

      OPVs I think they have recently what about bigger?
      Just some Patrol Craft to Arab States but not a standard RN design. retired ships to South American and Asian navies and of course Corvettes and CMS's to us. Not sure if the Peacocks were a yard or RN design. The New Shipbuilding Strategy includes provision for not retaining RN ships in service too long but selling on to other navies in an effort to retain building skills going forward. They highlight the building of 4 ships for the Irish Navy as an example of export capability. The P31E type frigate has been priced at not more than a cap of £250m per ship with an effort to also build an export model. The first P31E is mooted to appear in 2023, all too slow and symptomatic of shipbuilding speeds of yore. In six years electronics will have shifted almost two generations leading to refitting requirements if the customer wants the day's latest Radar and Systems.

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      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
        The first P31E is mooted to appear in 2023, all too slow and symptomatic of shipbuilding speeds of yore. In six years electronics will have shifted almost two generations leading to refitting requirements if the customer wants the day's latest Radar and Systems.
        Oh come on, what first build of any new warship class beats that in this day and age? The Type 26's are meant to take about 9 years for first of class (money issues), while most other Euro/USN hulls are in the same speed for first builds. As for sensors etc, for the RN, there's a chance they may play the same switch around that they plan for the 26's, ie update the GP 23's then pull the Artisan radar/Sea Ceptor systems to plug into the 31's as they are replaced. For foreign exports if new build the customer can spec their own (for example Columbia is spec'ing their own version of the Venator that they've already ordered), as for what happens in refits, again that's a policy with the idea that whoever buys the RN second hand pays for whatever upgrades they want and the work is done in the UK, the exact same plan the UK had for the 23's when they were going to go at 18 years.

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        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
          When was the last time the U.K. sold a vessel (based on a RN design) (not retired RN) to an export customer?

          OPVs I think they have recently what about bigger?
          Given that the UK itself has only had Frigates/Destroyers so expensive that they couldn't afford the full original amount, I think we all know the answer to that one.

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          • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
            Just some Patrol Craft to Arab States but not a standard RN design. retired ships to South American and Asian navies and of course Corvettes and CMS's to us. Not sure if the Peacocks were a yard or RN design. The New Shipbuilding Strategy includes provision for not retaining RN ships in service too long but selling on to other navies in an effort to retain building skills going forward. They highlight the building of 4 ships for the Irish Navy as an example of export capability. The P31E type frigate has been priced at not more than a cap of £250m per ship with an effort to also build an export model. The first P31E is mooted to appear in 2023, all too slow and symptomatic of shipbuilding speeds of yore. In six years electronics will have shifted almost two generations leading to refitting requirements if the customer wants the day's latest Radar and Systems.
            The MOD is basically being used to keep (BAe) shipyards open with massive expensive ships

            Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
            Given that the UK itself has only had Frigates/Destroyers so expensive that they couldn't afford the full original amount, I think we all know the answer to that one.
            +1

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            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              The MOD is basically being used to keep (BAe) shipyards open with massive expensive ships
              Think basically that's what the 31e is meant to try and stop, seems BAe is reportedly being "stroppy" about the idea of a "cheap" Frigate, so I do wonder if either BMT or Babcock are going to get the nod over the two BAe designs. Certainly I don't think that BAe could produce anything like a Light Frigate for £250m.

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              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                When was the last time the U.K. sold a vessel (based on a RN design) (not retired RN) to an export customer?

                OPVs I think they have recently what about bigger?
                Niteori Class to Brazil, enlarged Ty21 Frigate, still in service with that country
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                  Niteori Class to Brazil, enlarged Ty21 Frigate, still in service with that country
                  So 40 plus years ago? It does amaze me when you see the Meko's around the place and the French designs as well, just how the UK gave up such an export market?

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                  • So a RN image of the 31e:

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                    • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                      Niteori Class to Brazil, enlarged Ty21 Frigate, still in service with that country

                      Cheers
                      31 years ago

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                      • Great ship for the money at 250m Cap. However phrases like open Architecture and scalable weapon and sensor outfit leave one thinking of Budget drift. I still think that 6 to 9 years is too long and has fiscal reasons rather than technical difficulty.

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                        • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                          Great ship for the money at 250m Cap. However phrases like open Architecture and scalable weapon and sensor outfit leave one thinking of Budget drift. I still think that 6 to 9 years is too long and has fiscal reasons rather than technical difficulty.
                          Don't see why "Open Architecture" and "Scalable oufits" are budget drift indicators, a) they're common phrases for development now and b) for ships that are meant to be exportable they have to be. One of the issues highlighted before on RN hulls was that they were UK specific hardware/systems that other navies didn't want. It was why the 26's were meant to be more "generic" so for example the RAN could replace Artisan with a US based system. As for the length of time of development the Head of the RN suggested meeting a 6 year development would make the 31 one of the quickest developments since WW2 (and while the 26's are taking 9 years the project itself is several decades long). And again it doesn't seem out of line both the French and Italian "Light Frigate Programs" are looking like only coming on stream around then as well (the Light Italian maybe 2021 but that's the basic version)

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                          • Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                            To a landlubber like myself it seems that they are going for something more like the dutch holland class opv than a conventional frigate.

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                            • Originally posted by paul g View Post
                              To a landlubber like myself it seems that they are going for something more like the dutch holland class opv than a conventional frigate.
                              To me it looks very similar in thought to the French and Italian plans (though with different styles of course), think something like the Venator spec (for example) that would be able to range from 57mm to 127mm and different VLS numbers for example.

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                              • So Babcock's design is up:

                                Arrowhead 120 DIGITAL.pdf

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