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  • #31
    Originally posted by The Usual Suspect View Post
    Thought this Roisin++ design, as offered to the USCG, may be of interest to you...

    [ATTACH]8209[/ATTACH]

    Vard 7 100 OPV.pdf

    Disappointingly uncrunchy...



    Believe it may have something to do with, the fact that, it was one of the two remaining enumerated defence restrictions Dev (the original Dev, that is) didn't manage to negotiate away by threatening not to recognise Edward VIII's abdication.

    We were not allowed to maintain an Air Force or Amphibious forces until (believe it or not) the 1998 Good Friday Agreement and the subsequent repeal of the 1922 Government of Ireland Act.

    The Air Corps got blue uniforms shortly thereafter.

    The Navy's still waiting...

    Wonder how we'd be set now if Churchill and Lloyd George had forbidden us from having a space programme?
    I'm pretty sure the Air Corps got their blue uniforms in 1994?
    Im Ron Burgendy??

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    • #32
      Type 26 delay called ‘an absolute disgrace’ after MoD admission

      Related to RN Type 31

      The Scotsman Wednesday 20th July 2016: Type 26 delay called ‘an absolute disgrace’ after MoD admission

      http://www.scotsman.com/news/type-26...sion-1-4182385

      Comment


      • #33
        The P31 is beginning to sound like a bigger OPV without the full capabilities of a frigate.

        Surely it would make more sense to deploy their newer fleet of OPVs as these frigate minuses and get the right amount of hulls with the right equipment!

        After all they want to be a world player, which could mean them deploying a carrier and an amphibious group carrying up to Bde strength force both of which would need defending (doubt they will ever deploy a 2nd carrier).

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        • #34
          Originally posted by DeV View Post
          The P31 is beginning to sound like a bigger OPV without the full capabilities of a frigate.

          Surely it would make more sense to deploy their newer fleet of OPVs as these frigate minuses and get the right amount of hulls with the right equipment!

          After all they want to be a world player, which could mean them deploying a carrier and an amphibious group carrying up to Bde strength force both of which would need defending (doubt they will ever deploy a 2nd carrier).
          p31 is not a super-OPV, its a GP Frigate - the super-OPV crap is what BAE want to provide for £350m a shot, not what the RN have any interest in buying or operating.

          The feeling within MOD - at a political level - is that BAE are going to get kicked to the kerb if they don't start producing what the customer wants rather than what they want to sell to some bribe-recipient in the Gulf. Don't fall off your chair if FREMM get the job....

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          • #35
            Originally posted by ropebag View Post
            p31 is not a super-OPV, its a GP Frigate - the super-OPV crap is what BAE want to provide for £350m a shot, not what the RN have any interest in buying or operating.

            The feeling within MOD - at a political level - is that BAE are going to get kicked to the kerb if they don't start producing what the customer wants rather than what they want to sell to some bribe-recipient in the Gulf. Don't fall off your chair if FREMM get the job....
            A GP frigate being a vessel without the full capabilities you'd see on a frigate

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            • #36
              Originally posted by DeV View Post
              A GP frigate being a vessel without the full capabilities you'd see on a frigate
              No, a GP Frigate being a Frigate without the super-duper, frankly exquisite ASW capability you'd find on a T26...

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              • #37
                Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                No, a GP Frigate being a Frigate without the super-duper, frankly exquisite ASW capability you'd find on a T26...
                So the question being is the UK going to produce something that is exportable? I mean given the delay in ordering the 26, I wonder what the impact towards the Australian selection in 2018?

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                • #38
                  Royal Navy Frigate programmes delayed indefinitely


                  BAE Type 26 'Cutlass' Concept July 2016 Al Shamikh+



                  BAE Type 31 'Avenger' Concept July 2016 River+

                  Janes 13th July 2016: BAE unveils General Purpose Frigate concepts

                  The Guardian 20th July 2016: Crucial fleet of global-combat frigates is indefinitely delayed

                  Up against this implementation (at whatever timescale) of a RN Type 31, a Roisin++ design begins to look much more attractive, if somewhat conservative.


                  Vard 7 100 OPV USCG Roisin++

                  For a suggestion towards a range of more capable and flexible vessels for the Naval Service click here.
                  Last edited by The Usual Suspect; 21 July 2016, 20:35. Reason: Guardian link added

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    No, a GP Frigate being a Frigate without the super-duper, frankly exquisite ASW capability you'd find on a T26...
                    Bad move, as the RN have been there before with GP frigates.. The Type 21s were GP frigates and when realised how toothless they were it was too late.

                    But its OK as you have an equally toothless Type 45 Destroyer to provide assistance, while being covered by unfinished carriers carrying a totally unproven and unbuilt aircraft.

                    Do you see a trend emerging?

                    the only value in these enlarged OPVs and and GP frigates is for the export market to emerging nations and Navies like |Ireland who build their resources around them.

                    The RN has been digging a huge grave for itself in the past 15 years...carry on.. you are doing brilliantly!!!

                    Get back to building credible warships before they find themselves extinct.
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                    • #40
                      The USCG vessel is designed to operate freely in an inspection mode in open waters. Note the bridge structure extends to the ship's sides Port and Starboard, protecting the aftermost parts of ship from head seas. Equally the boarding craft are also recessed from head seas. While a third craft is available, over the stern. She seems to have a CIWS, covering after arcs, and of course a flight deck.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                        The USCG vessel is designed to operate freely in an inspection mode in open waters. Note the bridge structure extends to the ship's sides Port and Starboard, protecting the aftermost parts of ship from head seas. Equally the boarding craft are also recessed from head seas. While a third craft is available, over the stern. She seems to have a CIWS, covering after arcs, and of course a flight deck.
                        And cost north of half a billion USD

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Confused and contradictory statements on RN Type 26/31



                          UK Defence Journal 21 July 2016: No, the Type 26 Frigate has not been cancelled

                          Those scraping and squeaking sounds you can hear are what politicians sound like when scurrying furiously while having no idea where they are going...




                          UK Defence Journal 22 July 2016: Government insist ‘no delay’ to Type 26 frigate

                          'It is understood the five Type 31 frigates are unaffected by... [the non-delay]... to the Type 26 frigate programme.'


                          Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                          Don't fall off your chair if FREMM get the job....
                          You'd have to think they'd be mad not to look at FREMM at this stage, albeit, politics would suggest that they would ultimately have to be built on The Clyde. That being the case, you would have to think that BMT's Venator could come back into play as a candidate for the Type 31, was it ever totally discounted?



                          UK Defence Journal 16 December 2015: Could this be Britain’s future light frigate?

                          'Exploring Flexibility and Design Families for Future Warships', BMT October 2013, follows up from an earlier paper 'How to Square The Circle for The Next Generation of Patrol Ship Designs' presented to RINA Conference June 2013. Interesting stuff from both the political/diplomatic and military/operational aspects.

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                          • #43
                            It is truly stunning the car crash that the 26 seems to be turning out to be, I mean with the idea to sink some of the costs into the 23 upgrade path you would have thought that they would turn out reasonable, but now they don't even have the excuse of European politics like the 45 had to explain how it's gone pear shaped.

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                            • #44


                              First Sea Lords thoughts on where the Royal Navy are headed in the next decade.

                              My reading of that is that he believes that T26 and T31 will both happen, but that he will not be pushed into signing for anything that does not deliver what the RN require and at the most efficient costings.

                              So maybe we should all calm down and see what happens?

                              T45 isn't toothless Murph, it is probably the leading Air Defence Destroyer in the world. Yes it has a problem with its propulsion system which is being rectified...other global warship designs have design / machinery issues which other Navies have to live with and deal with...no different here.
                              'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by spider View Post
                                https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...city-of-london

                                First Sea Lords thoughts on where the Royal Navy are headed in the next decade.

                                My reading of that is that he believes that T26 and T31 will both happen, but that he will not be pushed into signing for anything that does not deliver what the RN require and at the most efficient costings.

                                So maybe we should all calm down and see what happens?

                                T45 isn't toothless Murph, it is probably the leading Air Defence Destroyer in the world. Yes it has a problem with its propulsion system which is being rectified...other global warship designs have design / machinery issues which other Navies have to live with and deal with...no different here.
                                I think it's a hell of a jump to declare the 45's the leading ADD in the World, her VLS capacity alone limits her compared to the Burke or the Burke derivatives (ie the South Korean one).

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