Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

manning levels, the future.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    Disagree on some points

    A GOC AC pulled 24/7 ATC. That fact came out after the IRCG helicopter crash. In no way did it contribute to the accident or have stopped it happening. It was Withdrawal of a necessary service. It went public in the aftermath but was obviously overshadowed and rightly so.

    Then there was the delay mainly due to DoD in deploying helos to Donegal.



    The Government could change to a SF/PBP alliance tomorrow and nothing would change in 2 years time..... the Minister hears what the DoD wants him to hear
    If it had been public knowledge before the crash, it could have been a game changer.
    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

    Comment


    • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
      If it had been public knowledge before the crash, it could have been a game changer.
      It could ....... if a a CASA and crew was available !

      No AC asset has ever been a declared SAR asset so everyone knows that when IRCG request an AC asset they aren’t guaranteed it. Why are they not declared assets? Because DoD and Government don’t provide the tasking, resources or budget (it all has to be done from existing resources).

      We know from the AAIU report, that the following MRCC’s initial request at 2203 hrs the AC duty Officer responded within 3 mins to say there was no availability until 0800 hrs.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
        What must STOP is any attempt to continue micromanaging Military/Naval assets. The decision on deployments, how many and where is a matter for the Commanding Officers . Need, appropriateness, urgency, are reasons to send a ship on HADR , especially when a couple of ships plus Marpats , coupled with surface and air AIS will keep the coast covered in exigent scenarios. The only task of Government is to approve or NOT.
        Yes and no.

        Government has to give the broad mission and tasking (based on advice by SG DoD and COS). It then becomes Government Policy.

        It is the DF’s and DoD’s job to implement that policy.

        The execution of the mission is solely the DF’s responsibility.

        DoD (and other Departments) is (should be) to provide the policies and resources to support the DF in the execution of the mission.



        Having said that we live in the world of the strategic corporal and the tactical politician.

        I haven’t come across the phrase “tactical civil servant” yet but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.....



        Patent pending

        Comment


        • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
          We were able to send Eithne to the US many a time back when we only had a 7 ship fleet. The ships crew was greatly boosted with those in the NS who would not normally be seagoing. Yet we still managed to patrol the EEZ with smaller ships. Similarly we were able to do regular UNIFIL resupply missions, normally of much longer duration than normal patrols. The work at home continued, and ships wen into regular refit as normal.
          How come suddenly we are unable to do anything except the local patrol duties, with 5 out of 9 Operational ships?
          Are the DoD punishing the NS for exposing their incompetence?
          sadly they increased from 3 weeks to 5 weeks,,and constant patrolling by decisions made by a senior officer who was known to have no personal feelings towards family life of members..with that came loss of pay and cut in wages... who if they could get out would stay and put up with that life..so the rot continued and now we see the results,,all started by a man in an office with a sad life..

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            Yes and no.

            Government has to give the broad mission and tasking (based on advice by SG DoD and COS). It then becomes Government Policy.

            It is the DF’s and DoD’s job to implement that policy.

            The execution of the mission is solely the DF’s responsibility.

            DoD (and other Departments) is (should be) to provide the policies and resources to support the DF in the execution of the mission.



            Having said that we live in the world of the strategic corporal and the tactical politician.

            I haven’t come across the phrase “tactical civil servant” yet but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.....




            Patent pending
            If you say yes and no, then Defence and Mission has to be continually re-evaluated and we approach the old scenario that the next CS rank to a General or Admiral is Clerical Officer. The decision tactically to say a ship or contingent is available is best decided by the Defence Forces who know their strengths and weaknesses. If proper interaction is going on with meaningful Defence briefings then we should never have reached the Wonky Donkey mode of operations. The truth and facts need to be continually stated that the Naval Service needs much more manpower and infrastructure to run a Nine ship Navy in any event. They could start by building one of those 50 room communal units in the West wall area to house single personnel who wish to live in.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
              If you say yes and no, then Defence and Mission has to be continually re-evaluated and we approach the old scenario that the next CS rank to a General or Admiral is Clerical Officer. The decision tactically to say a ship or contingent is available is best decided by the Defence Forces who know their strengths and weaknesses. If proper interaction is going on with meaningful Defence briefings then we should never have reached the Wonky Donkey mode of operations. The truth and facts need to be continually stated that the Naval Service needs much more manpower and infrastructure to run a Nine ship Navy in any event. They could start by building one of those 50 room communal units in the West wall area to house single personnel who wish to live in.
              IRT mission - it should be continually assessed to varying degrees by all the above (but not necessarily in all areas) - everything from does it meet current Government policy, has threat assessment changed, are more/less troops required, is additional equipment required, do we need to change legislation, does defence policy need to altered

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                IRT mission - it should be continually assessed to varying degrees by all the above (but not necessarily in all areas) - everything from does it meet current Government policy, has threat assessment changed, are more/less troops required, is additional equipment required, do we need to change legislation, does defence policy need to altered
                In the real world, the General Staff from its sources within and without would advise the Minister and Cabinet of our Defence needs based on National ,International, UN , and EU requirements and obligations if any. The Naval Service is a special case in that it needs to meet operational requirements at sea 24/7, even in peacetime. This means it needs to be properly manned , equipped, fed, and fuelled . The only Naval base/ maintenance facility is in Cork Harbour , and right next door is the Country's only Maritime College, outside of Fishery Schools in Donegal. The Base existence is now under threat from Port Development BUT does NOT appear to be Defended by a Stated Government Policy. If you remember the Department of Defence inherited a large acreage of land and Black Prince Pier on the Western side of Ringaskiddy. In my time our recreation grounds were on the lands Ringaskiddy/ Monkstown area. It was conceded to the Council leaving us to generate a poor playing field on the Steel dump at the Eastern side of the Dockyard. The Navy has always operated under siege with minimal support and occasional fortuitous support from membership of the EU. Defence policy is one of control and minimum spending and manpower thresholds. We may need to look for a new home and put in place a plan for Naval training, maintenance, and fuelling. The traditional away Naval Berths and moorings have disappeared . The threat assessment to be considered is Home Grown.!!

                Comment


                • I too remember when the site that now holds NMCI and the associated centres, had signs on the fence saying "Lands property of Dept of Defence". I wonder what we, the taxpayer got in exchange for that land?
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                    In the real world, the General Staff from its sources within and without would advise the Minister and Cabinet of our Defence needs based on National ,International, UN , and EU requirements and obligations if any. The Naval Service is a special case in that it needs to meet operational requirements at sea 24/7, even in peacetime. This means it needs to be properly manned , equipped, fed, and fuelled . The only Naval base/ maintenance facility is in Cork Harbour , and right next door is the Country's only Maritime College, outside of Fishery Schools in Donegal. The Base existence is now under threat from Port Development BUT does NOT appear to be Defended by a Stated Government Policy. If you remember the Department of Defence inherited a large acreage of land and Black Prince Pier on the Western side of Ringaskiddy. In my time our recreation grounds were on the lands Ringaskiddy/ Monkstown area. It was conceded to the Council leaving us to generate a poor playing field on the Steel dump at the Eastern side of the Dockyard. The Navy has always operated under siege with minimal support and occasional fortuitous support from membership of the EU. Defence policy is one of control and minimum spending and manpower thresholds. We may need to look for a new home and put in place a plan for Naval training, maintenance, and fuelling. The traditional away Naval Berths and moorings have disappeared . The threat assessment to be considered is Home Grown.!!
                    COS is the military advisor and SG DoD is the Defence Policy advisor to the Minister. There is stories going around that SG needs to clear the advise COS offers. I don’t know if it is true or not.

                    But in fairness to them, DoD objected to the incinerator


                    Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                    I too remember when the site that now holds NMCI and the associated centres, had signs on the fence saying "Lands property of Dept of Defence". I wonder what we, the taxpayer got in exchange for that land?
                    NMCI is a PPP, CIT & NS are the public site

                    Comment


                    • I have no idea what point you are trying to make there. NMCI and CIT are one and the same. They occupy the same space in ringaskiddy that was once dod property. As do the UCC operated Beaufort centre next door.

                      The structure is a ppp, not the college.
                      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                        I have no idea what point you are trying to make there. NMCI and CIT are one and the same. They occupy the same space in ringaskiddy that was once dod property. As do the UCC operated Beaufort centre next door.

                        The structure is a ppp, not the college.


                        That's not what the NMCI thinks

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                          https://www.nmci.ie/aboutus

                          That's not what the NMCI thinks
                          CIT accredits the degrees. Quite common in the education sector. Similar situation with Mary Immaculate College in Limerick and UL. Still separate institutions though.

                          Comment


                          • NMCI is staffed by CIT and NS, degrees accredited by CIT, building etc provided by private sector

                            Comment


                            • The point is, what did the DoD get in return for handing their land over to Bovis/NMCI/CIT?
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                              Comment


                              • Probably feck all knowing the DOD. If they are lucky the NS may have free access for their students

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X