Thanks Thanks:  89
Likes Likes:  231
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 2101112
Results 276 to 291 of 291
  1. #276
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,882
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    There is a lot of unanalysed statements being made which lack support for the Naval Service and may be demoralising some, including those that would like to join our Branch of the PDF. In days of yore we sent one ship twice to Antwerp to collect weapons and ammunition for the Congo, with one other ship manned to do Fishery Patrols. The first trip to America was done with P31 on task and remainder deployed and did leave and maintenance as normal. To say we cannot support International obligations with 5+1 ( Maintenance ) is short on solidarity and unworthy of those who want to serve.
    Not by me!!!

    An Taoiseach (the Minister) though we had 7 ships - not the NS
    He also though we were looking a ship to the Med - that mission is over

    It would appear from the circular from FOCNS that was on Twitter that it was FOCNS’s decision - IMHO he has made 1000% the correct decision

    DoD attempted to block Op PONTUS after An Taoiseach had announced it on RTE News after an EU meeting.

    The DF could be very important in a few months

  2. #277
    Lieutenant
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,423
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Not by me!!!

    An Taoiseach (the Minister) though we had 7 ships - not the NS
    He also though we were looking a ship to the Med - that mission is over

    It would appear from the circular from FOCNS that was on Twitter that it was FOCNS’s decision - IMHO he has made 1000% the correct decision

    DoD attempted to block Op PONTUS after An Taoiseach had announced it on RTE News after an EU meeting.

    The DF could be very important in a few months
    Indeed not you. Unfortunately it is the presumptive commanders of the Defence Forces in the CS and the Dail. Command and operational development of the PDF is a task of the uniformed branch. It should include responding to requests for elements to visit or engage with friendly forces or countries. Defence Budgets in totality should be usable for such projects. It is only fuel and port costs.

  3. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV, na grohmiti liked this post
  4. #278
    Lt General
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,816
    Post Thanks / Like
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  5. Thanks EUFighter thanked for this post
    Likes sofa liked this post
  6. #279
    CQMS
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    237
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    I see that this bloke Kehoe has been in his role for 8 years. He must really be quite the house trained hamster by the civil service after that period of time.

  7. Thanks DeV, apod thanked for this post
    Likes DeV, na grohmiti, Flamingo, sofa, apod liked this post
  8. #280
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,882
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzac View Post
    I see that this bloke Kehoe has been in his role for 8 years. He must really be quite the house trained hamster by the civil service after that period of time.
    Exactly ..... it’s DoD that’s the problem .... along with a lack of political will to challenge them

  9. Thanks Anzac thanked for this post
    Likes EUFighter, sofa liked this post
  10. #281
    CQMS
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    237
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Exactly ..... it’s DoD that’s the problem .... along with a lack of political will to challenge them
    With less active vessels in service and with just 2 air surveillance assets the political will may challenge them not to mention the environmental and financial cost to Ireland and the food security issue to Europe.

    https://www.fishforward.eu/pl/europe-runs-out-of-fish/

    Illegal Chinese fishing vessels are already fishing further up the Atlantic and will go where they think there is a vacuum that they can exploit.

  11. #282
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    13,662
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    It should be significant but I hardly doubt it will have impact. The event was last week, the Taoiseach has rowed in with Kehoe and the ships have been tied up....... summer break for the Dail is in the offing.. move along , nothing to see. The Maria Bailey thing is not finished yet and you expect Kehoe to fall? I'd bet money this is the last of it.

    But what is constantly overlooked is that FOCNS stuck it to the minister, pushed the doomsday button and got away with it, while the Naval Service is loosing people, the OC has made the Government look like idiots by making a command decision, something no other officer in the DF has had the balls to do.

    While it may not look like a victory a Naval Officer has stood up to the politicians and said'no more' !

    While in the 70s the ships were falling apart and replacements were required and the decision to scrap/ tie them up made economical sense, here we are with two perfectly functional ships tied up because we have no effective minister for defence and those in the service are leaving in droves because the country.. not the government don't care enough to do something about it.....remeber in the Naval Service we are talking about around 1000 people.

    Yes I'm deliberately overlooking the rest of the DF because the jobs don't equate and there are two different battles to be fought, sizeable state assets are now dormant because of results to date and only one person has had the bollocks to put his career in the path of a politician.
    Time for another break I think......

  12. Thanks Turkey thanked for this post
    Likes Turkey, EUFighter, Flamingo, na grohmiti, apod liked this post
  13. #283
    CQMS
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    247
    Post Thanks / Like
    Kehoe's mistake was to take on the IT and the Examiner and label them as fake news.

    They will continue to poke the bear as a result.

  14. Likes sofa liked this post
  15. #284
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,882
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    It should be significant but I hardly doubt it will have impact. The event was last week, the Taoiseach has rowed in with Kehoe and the ships have been tied up....... summer break for the Dail is in the offing.. move along , nothing to see. The Maria Bailey thing is not finished yet and you expect Kehoe to fall? I'd bet money this is the last of it.

    But what is constantly overlooked is that FOCNS stuck it to the minister, pushed the doomsday button and got away with it, while the Naval Service is loosing people, the OC has made the Government look like idiots by making a command decision, something no other officer in the DF has had the balls to do.

    While it may not look like a victory a Naval Officer has stood up to the politicians and said'no more' !

    While in the 70s the ships were falling apart and replacements were required and the decision to scrap/ tie them up made economical sense, here we are with two perfectly functional ships tied up because we have no effective minister for defence and those in the service are leaving in droves because the country.. not the government don't care enough to do something about it.....remeber in the Naval Service we are talking about around 1000 people.

    Yes I'm deliberately overlooking the rest of the DF because the jobs don't equate and there are two different battles to be fought, sizeable state assets are now dormant because of results to date and only one person has had the bollocks to put his career in the path of a politician.
    Disagree on some points

    A GOC AC pulled 24/7 ATC. That fact came out after the IRCG helicopter crash. In no way did it contribute to the accident or have stopped it happening. It was Withdrawal of a necessary service. It went public in the aftermath but was obviously overshadowed and rightly so.

    Then there was the delay mainly due to DoD in deploying helos to Donegal.



    The Government could change to a SF/PBP alliance tomorrow and nothing would change in 2 years time..... the Minister hears what the DoD wants him to hear

  16. #285
    Lieutenant
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,423
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Disagree on some points

    A GOC AC pulled 24/7 ATC. That fact came out after the IRCG helicopter crash. In no way did it contribute to the accident or have stopped it happening. It was Withdrawal of a necessary service. It went public in the aftermath but was obviously overshadowed and rightly so.

    Then there was the delay mainly due to DoD in deploying helos to Donegal.



    The Government could change to a SF/PBP alliance tomorrow and nothing would change in 2 years time..... the Minister hears what the DoD wants him to hear
    What must STOP is any attempt to continue micromanaging Military/Naval assets. The decision on deployments, how many and where is a matter for the Commanding Officers . Need, appropriateness, urgency, are reasons to send a ship on HADR , especially when a couple of ships plus Marpats , coupled with surface and air AIS will keep the coast covered in exigent scenarios. The only task of Government is to approve or NOT.

  17. Thanks na grohmiti thanked for this post
    Likes na grohmiti, hptmurphy, CTU liked this post
  18. #286
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    13,662
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Disagree on some points

    A GOC AC pulled 24/7 ATC. That fact came out after the IRCG helicopter crash. In no way did it contribute to the accident or have stopped it happening. It was Withdrawal of a necessary service. It went public in the aftermath but was obviously overshadowed and rightly so.

    Then there was the delay mainly due to DoD in deploying helos to Donegal.



    The Government could change to a SF/PBP alliance tomorrow and nothing would change in 2 years time..... the Minister hears what the DoD wants him to hear
    If it had been public knowledge before the crash, it could have been a game changer.
    Time for another break I think......

  19. #287
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,882
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    If it had been public knowledge before the crash, it could have been a game changer.
    It could ....... if a a CASA and crew was available !

    No AC asset has ever been a declared SAR asset so everyone knows that when IRCG request an AC asset they aren’t guaranteed it. Why are they not declared assets? Because DoD and Government don’t provide the tasking, resources or budget (it all has to be done from existing resources).

    We know from the AAIU report, that the following MRCC’s initial request at 2203 hrs the AC duty Officer responded within 3 mins to say there was no availability until 0800 hrs.

  20. #288
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,882
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    What must STOP is any attempt to continue micromanaging Military/Naval assets. The decision on deployments, how many and where is a matter for the Commanding Officers . Need, appropriateness, urgency, are reasons to send a ship on HADR , especially when a couple of ships plus Marpats , coupled with surface and air AIS will keep the coast covered in exigent scenarios. The only task of Government is to approve or NOT.
    Yes and no.

    Government has to give the broad mission and tasking (based on advice by SG DoD and COS). It then becomes Government Policy.

    It is the DF’s and DoD’s job to implement that policy.

    The execution of the mission is solely the DF’s responsibility.

    DoD (and other Departments) is (should be) to provide the policies and resources to support the DF in the execution of the mission.



    Having said that we live in the world of the strategic corporal and the tactical politician.

    I haven’t come across the phrase “tactical civil servant” yet but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.....



    Patent pending

  21. #289
    bosun
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    cork
    Posts
    1,679
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    We were able to send Eithne to the US many a time back when we only had a 7 ship fleet. The ships crew was greatly boosted with those in the NS who would not normally be seagoing. Yet we still managed to patrol the EEZ with smaller ships. Similarly we were able to do regular UNIFIL resupply missions, normally of much longer duration than normal patrols. The work at home continued, and ships wen into regular refit as normal.
    How come suddenly we are unable to do anything except the local patrol duties, with 5 out of 9 Operational ships?
    Are the DoD punishing the NS for exposing their incompetence?
    sadly they increased from 3 weeks to 5 weeks,,and constant patrolling by decisions made by a senior officer who was known to have no personal feelings towards family life of members..with that came loss of pay and cut in wages... who if they could get out would stay and put up with that life..so the rot continued and now we see the results,,all started by a man in an office with a sad life..

  22. #290
    Lieutenant
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,423
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Yes and no.

    Government has to give the broad mission and tasking (based on advice by SG DoD and COS). It then becomes Government Policy.

    It is the DF’s and DoD’s job to implement that policy.

    The execution of the mission is solely the DF’s responsibility.

    DoD (and other Departments) is (should be) to provide the policies and resources to support the DF in the execution of the mission.



    Having said that we live in the world of the strategic corporal and the tactical politician.

    I haven’t come across the phrase “tactical civil servant” yet but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.....




    Patent pending
    If you say yes and no, then Defence and Mission has to be continually re-evaluated and we approach the old scenario that the next CS rank to a General or Admiral is Clerical Officer. The decision tactically to say a ship or contingent is available is best decided by the Defence Forces who know their strengths and weaknesses. If proper interaction is going on with meaningful Defence briefings then we should never have reached the Wonky Donkey mode of operations. The truth and facts need to be continually stated that the Naval Service needs much more manpower and infrastructure to run a Nine ship Navy in any event. They could start by building one of those 50 room communal units in the West wall area to house single personnel who wish to live in.

  23. Likes na grohmiti liked this post
  24. #291
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,882
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    If you say yes and no, then Defence and Mission has to be continually re-evaluated and we approach the old scenario that the next CS rank to a General or Admiral is Clerical Officer. The decision tactically to say a ship or contingent is available is best decided by the Defence Forces who know their strengths and weaknesses. If proper interaction is going on with meaningful Defence briefings then we should never have reached the Wonky Donkey mode of operations. The truth and facts need to be continually stated that the Naval Service needs much more manpower and infrastructure to run a Nine ship Navy in any event. They could start by building one of those 50 room communal units in the West wall area to house single personnel who wish to live in.
    IRT mission - it should be continually assessed to varying degrees by all the above (but not necessarily in all areas) - everything from does it meet current Government policy, has threat assessment changed, are more/less troops required, is additional equipment required, do we need to change legislation, does defence policy need to altered

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •