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  1. #26
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    So when the A/Cook has done his 2 years at sea who replaces him? Another A/Cook who has been doing admin/duties for 2 years?

  2. #27
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    I believe all the catering in UK military bases is done by civie companies .
    Sodexho
    Just visiting

  3. #28
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    So when the A/Cook has done his 2 years at sea who replaces him? Another A/Cook who has been doing admin/duties for 2 years?
    And who do you think has been preparing meals in the base all along?
    Just visiting

  4. #29
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    And who do you think has been preparing meals in the base all along?
    That's my point.

    If you privatise the cooks in the dining hall, there is no where for the cooks to go when on shore rotation.

  5. #30
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    I was chatting to a Chief Chips on exercise recently (WO2 Chef).

    He told me that the British Army only recruited 24 Chefs last year...

    The future is apparently, contractors in MOB's...with Army Chefs and Army Reserve Chefs from this lot further forward...

    http://www.army.mod.uk/logistic/regiments/26026.aspx
    'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

  6. #31
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Sodexho might do deliveries!
    Just visiting

  7. #32
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Sodexho might do deliveries!
    That's what type naval UAVs are for

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  9. #33
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The NS hit the 10,000 rescue mark today

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  11. #34
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    That's my point.

    If you privatise the cooks in the dining hall, there is no where for the cooks to go when on shore rotation.
    in most of our bases Military Chefs still work in the kitchens - with Sodexo, or whichever provider has the catering contract.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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  13. #35
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    There used to be, in the BA, an Army Catering Corps, now in this age of doing things better, we have The Royal Logistics Corps, under which bullets, beans,and POL are all part of the supply and delivery system. They have of course killed off old allegiances and dovetailed private catering into shore based units. None of which would work in operational scenarios. Enforced modernisation, by the mandarins , on military/naval systems, is a cost cutting exercise, and usually mean you get less with less.

  14. #36
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Enforced modernisation, by the mandarins , on military/naval systems, is a cost cutting exercise, and usually mean you get less with less.
    Not necessarily , the army here use service companies in a lot of kitchens and it frees up people from menial tasks to perform other duties.

    Outsourcing would free up a lot of people for other duties, in the case of the NS , sea going. Get rid of security duties and employ a force that solely do this as a sole tasking again releasing people .

    The DF need to take a joint step into the 21st century in relation to these type of roles, we have too few people to be tied up doing jobs which could be carried out more efficiently by contractors.
    Just visiting

  15. #37
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    I'm not sure I like the idea of anyone but the military securing military bases.

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  17. #38
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    What's best international practice?
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  18. #39
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    NS are currently recruiting DE Ops Branch (watchkeeping) and Engr (Marine & Electrical) officers.

    http://www.military.ie/fileadmin/use...fficers_16.pdf

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  20. #40
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    De officers

    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    NS are currently recruiting DE Ops Branch (watchkeeping) and Engr (Marine & Electrical) officers.

    http://www.military.ie/fileadmin/use...fficers_16.pdf
    This is an onerous undertaken which must be run by a top cadre of Officers and NCO's. All DE officers should undergo a new entry training course covering drills, All Arms drills, Guards, Inspections, documentation, accounts, including estimates, DFR's , divisional duties and Messes.
    The DE officer should also have Branch Training in Naval Navigation procedures, Gunnery etc. Other Branch officers should receive Type training on Engineering and Electrical systems as appropriate. Such courses could run for at least 12-14 weeks with refresher elements to follow where necessary. At all costs an overwhelmed, hung out to dry ,officer must be avoided.
    Last edited by ancientmariner; 2nd August 2016 at 13:54.

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  22. #41
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    question from newbie. How is the NS and the rest of the service doing for recruiting?

  23. #42
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    This is an onerous undertaken which must be run by a top cadre of Officers and NCO's. All DE officers should undergo a new entry training course covering drills, All Arms drills, Guards, Inspections, documentation, accounts, including estimates, DFR's , divisional duties and Messes.
    The DE officer should also have Branch Training in Naval Navigation procedures, Gunnery etc. Other Branch officers should receive Type training on Engineering and Electrical systems as appropriate. Such courses could run for at least 12-14 weeks with refresher elements to follow where necessary. At all costs an overwhelmed, hung out to dry ,officer must be avoided.
    Civvy to Sub Lt in 14 weeks quite do able given all the cadet bullshit will be removed and the people already hold a qualification that is applicable to the job.

    I do find the qualification criteria puzzling. You actually qualify for the selection process if you are a refugee????

    If it's a short service commission is extension of service again based on a maximum engagement contract and if so what rank will candidates have been expected to attain by end of contract?

    It mentions a short service commission pay rate.

    Is this payable annually as an allowance or as a gratuity on termination of contract.

    For what it's worth this is the most foward thinking move the NS has made in relation to recruitment in 30 years.

    It was offered piecemeal in the past but this now could make it a regular recruitment tool for executive branch officers.


    I DO
    Just visiting

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  25. #43
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    question from newbie. How is the NS and the rest of the service doing for recruiting?
    Around 400 short of establishment

    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    I do find the qualification criteria puzzling. You actually qualify for the selection process if you are a refugee????
    Have been for around 10 years or so

    If it's a short service commission is extension of service again based on a maximum engagement contract and if so what rank will candidates have been expected to attain by end of contract?
    3 years as a Sub/Lt is the offer (they get a bonus at the end of each year unless after 18 months service they have entered a normal commission).

    Promotion reads like ask RACO to make a submission


    For what it's worth this is the most foward thinking move the NS has made in relation to recruitment in 30 years.[/QUOTE]
    Not the first time in the last 20 years

  26. #44
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Ir ws offered on a ad hoc basis on a couple of occasions. It could be offered on a two year basis now as part of scheduled recruitment. ..which hadn't been done in 30 years!
    Just visiting

  27. #45
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    Necessity. The NS just can't keep young officers in the current economic climate. Out of one class of ten cadets, who should all now be approaching LT(NS) rank, only one remains. Many of the rest were poached by german retailers based in Ireland, with the offer of €60k per annum plus company Audi A4.
    Until the DF can compete with that, it will continue losing those in their late 20s and early 30s to the civilian world.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  28. #46
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    So why bother with all the high end investment in cadets and just get them in on short service commissions.

    Makes sense realistically. No long term financial commitment
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 2nd August 2016 at 22:21.
    Just visiting

  29. #47
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    Its the same throughout the Public Service where certain workers have skills needed by private concerns. There was an article in late 2015 where the State Solicitors office in Dublin couldnt recruit solicitors at 30k pa whilst the big firms were offering newbies 55-60k pa.

  30. #48
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Necessity. The NS just can't keep young officers in the current economic climate. Out of one class of ten cadets, who should all now be approaching LT(NS) rank, only one remains. Many of the rest were poached by german retailers based in Ireland, with the offer of €60k per annum plus company Audi A4.
    Until the DF can compete with that, it will continue losing those in their late 20s and early 30s to the civilian world.
    Except they will be burnt out within 3 years. They are worked for that salary. Some of those recruited by the likes of Lidl haven't lasted a year with them.


    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    So why bother with all the high end investment in cadets and just get them in on short service commissions.

    Makes sense realistically. No long term financial commitment
    Currently cadets are commissioned on a 3 year SSC which is the duration of their training. Is that part of the issue.

  31. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Necessity. The NS just can't keep young officers in the current economic climate. Out of one class of ten cadets, who should all now be approaching LT(NS) rank, only one remains. Many of the rest were poached by german retailers based in Ireland, with the offer of €60k per annum plus company Audi A4.
    Until the DF can compete with that, it will continue losing those in their late 20s and early 30s to the civilian world.

    Eh not exactly 100% correct only one NS officer workig for a supermarket (Two NCO's are working on manager ref prog). Anecdotally the 10 or so army offices that left o do the same are now dropping out of the while thing as the hours are fairly insane?

    one of the bigger issues is pay is fairly poor for junior offices, the pension is now terrible (careers average payment) and their are no real perks.

    The object of the DE officers is to get bums on seats as fast as possible, they will never be considered "real" officers in any case and like the last lot most will be driven from service within a decade!

    It will be fascinating to see what the up take is this time as the last lot where on better wages etc.

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  33. #50
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Problem there straight away 'real officers '

    Given some very noteworthy officers in the past were DE's one even decorated were these not real officers despite their 30 year contribution to the service. . Up to Liam Moloney all the Flag officers were DE'S as we're a large portion of the top MEOs

    I do understand the sentiments attached to EDS but the fact is without them the NS is having problems.

    The high turn over thing has always been an issue and even without the financial issues attached the inability to provide scheduled relief is a bigger issue to my mind.

    Hence welcome the DEs with open arms.

    On the point of the leavers going to greener pastures. Anyone who leaves to join the retail multiples on the conditions mention can expect to be working 60 - 70 hour weeks under huge pressure. At that level they expect high burn out and probably expect very resilient people coming from the DF. However the types of pressure around making money and driving ships are incomparable and the guys at the retail end are merciless. As an officer you have team to help seal with issues..in retail the guy behind you is lining himself up for your job when you slip.

    As for the jobs
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 3rd August 2016 at 11:36.
    Just visiting

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