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  1. #51
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    [QUOTE=hptmurphy;443434]Problem there straight away 'real officers '

    "(Given some very noteworthy officers in the past were DE's one even decorated were these not real officers despite their 30 year contribution to the service. . Up to Liam Moloney all the Flag officers were DE'S as we're a large portion of the top MEOs

    I do understand the sentiments attached to EDS but the fact is without them the NS is having problems").

    I agree with your views. The challenge for the Naval Service is to make them as REAL officers as is possible. It is important to try and maintain an Naval Ethic within the service and imbue a fighting spirit and a willingness to go in harms way where and when necessary. How it will all go is largely down to leadership and mindset of those tasked with selecting and training new entrants. The advantage for this recruitment is that the ships and environment on offer is technically advanced and will not dilute their career experience.
    Last edited by ancientmariner; 4th August 2016 at 10:07.

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  3. #52
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    [QUOTE=ancientmariner;443457]
    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Problem there straight away 'real officers '

    "(Given some very noteworthy officers in the past were DE's one even decorated were these not real officers despite their 30 year contribution to the service. . Up to Liam Moloney all the Flag officers were DE'S as we're a large portion of the top MEOs

    I do understand the sentiments attached to EDS but the fact is without them the NS is having problems").

    I agree with your views. The challenge for the Naval Service is to make them as REAL officers as is possible. It is important to try and maintain an Naval Ethic within the service and imbue a fighting spirit and a willingness to go in harms way where and when necessary. How it will all go is largely down to leadership and mindset of those tasked with selecting and training new entrants. The advantage for this recruitment is that the ships and environment on offer is technically advanced and will not dilute their career experience.
    .

    Due to the Emergency nature of recruitment in the PDF, based on minimising overall cost, we are continually losing ground against experience and using our best people as training cadres. Recent promotional Naval pictures showed DE officers under training so obviously Cadet intakes are not keeping pace. The PDF are about to recruit 1600 personnel over two years to bring the overall figure to 9600 all ranks. This represents 40 classes of 40 recruits all requiring section NCO's and officers for training and assessment for final approval. Given normal unit losses for all reasons , coupled with recruit losses in training, the recruitment target should be nearer 2000, to try and reach the 9600 level.
    An open door policy, on recruitment, for up to four years would help to offset the attrition suffered on service strengths. It is an indictment of our controllers that strengths are publicly admitted to be almost 17% below permitted levels with deeper shortages in certain ranks and trades.

  4. #53
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=ancientmariner;454923]
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    .

    Due to the Emergency nature of recruitment in the PDF, based on minimising overall cost, we are continually losing ground against experience and using our best people as training cadres. Recent promotional Naval pictures showed DE officers under training so obviously Cadet intakes are not keeping pace. The PDF are about to recruit 1600 personnel over two years to bring the overall figure to 9600 all ranks. This represents 40 classes of 40 recruits all requiring section NCO's and officers for training and assessment for final approval. Given normal unit losses for all reasons , coupled with recruit losses in training, the recruitment target should be nearer 2000, to try and reach the 9600 level.
    An open door policy, on recruitment, for up to four years would help to offset the attrition suffered on service strengths. It is an indictment of our controllers that strengths are publicly admitted to be almost 17% below permitted levels with deeper shortages in certain ranks and trades.
    This 800 figure annually is being bigged up a lot, all the way through most of the 00s, they were taking on that many so it's a non story.

    You'll also notice DE NCOs.

    The issue is pay, terms and conditions. If you may the lot of the people more sustainable (e.g. less duties, shorter working week etc), even if you can't provide the pay it will help with the morale.

  5. #54
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    [QUOTE=DeV;454924]
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post

    This 800 figure annually is being bigged up a lot, all the way through most of the 00s, they were taking on that many so it's a non story.

    You'll also notice DE NCOs.

    The issue is pay, terms and conditions. If you may the lot of the people more sustainable (e.g. less duties, shorter working week etc), even if you can't provide the pay it will help with the morale.
    Nothing much changes except the GS numbers are to be increased to 15,000 and all Branches of the PDF are to be stalled at 9,500, which is a figure which maximises duty intervals and diminishes deployability.

  6. #55
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    [QUOTE=ancientmariner;455701]
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post

    Nothing much changes except the GS numbers are to be increased to 15,000 and all Branches of the PDF are to be stalled at 9,500, which is a figure which maximises duty intervals and diminishes deployability.
    Well! Well! Ireland has now joined a European Defence Service by 72 votes to 42 votes in the Dail. Better known as PESCO it is in the process of being formed , and following a Council decision will be adopted by majority vote before the end of 2017.
    Permanent Structured Cooperation ( PESCO ) will be a framework for closer coop and a structured process to gradually deepen defence coop within the EU. " It will be a driver for integration in the Defence field".
    It involves agreed Budgets, and Plans, and involves oversight and regular assessment. It's to reinforce EU's autonomy to act alone in Defence matters with willing partners, and with regional integration such as the European Air Transport Command and Belgian-Dutch Navy Cooperation in regional Defence. There must be a hope we can upgrade to fit in with our Allies.

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  8. #56
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    if you are following our other threads there is a good discussion about PESCO
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  10. #57
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    Very Good article by Ian O' Doherty in Thursdays Indo on the Defence Forces, Can not up load it myself. But would be greatful if someone could.

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