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  • #91
    Originally posted by paul g View Post

    Unlike the giraffe amb it can’t do weapons location, however that’s not really a problem as such, the state would get more utility from buying the us army’s lcmr (light weight counter mortar radar), which retail for under a million each, and would provide excellent use in defending static bases a la chad, and also monitoring cease fires and the like; the brit are experimenting with integrating it into their isr company for the eu battle group.
    How does the LCMR compare to Giraffe 1X? To me this radar looks like the good option for the irish forces: small, mobile and enough range for mortar defence and control of VSHORADS, which is what we have. Why buy something more expensive for our mobile forces? We are either working in the EU battlegroups where other nations supply the radar or at home, where we come back to the LR radar discussion.
    Last edited by Graylion; 4 August 2016, 09:34.

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    • #92
      if for nothing other than replacement of obsolete equipment, then buy it. I'd imagine membership of the EU battle group confers a need to have as modern a set of equipments as is possible. If the bar is set at eight-wheeled AFVs, then that's what has to be bought,etc,etc

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      • #93
        would we like C-RAM to go with that? And if so, what? the Leonardo Draco 76mm strikes me as a nice universal support gun.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Graylion View Post
          ...We are either working in the EU battlegroups where other nations supply the radar...
          i think this in an unfortunate attitude to take in strategic terms - basing your doctrine, diplomacy and defence and security policy on the principle that someone else will always bring the expensive gear might be termed 'couragous'. its an insult, it means to do something dumber than pork.

          it also ignores the nature of the equipment and how its used - this type of locating equipment is employed at Coy and even Pln+ locations: it would seem to me foolish to build in a requirement for multi-national structures and formations at the Coy and Pln level - such formations require regular joint training, and create organisational friction even in the most well-honed formations, they are a necessary evil and as such should only be brought about when no other option exists. they never, ever work quite as well is if one nation had the resources and skills to do the job on its own.

          to swing back to the political and strategic, Ireland already doesn't bring airlift, or battlefield mobility, or armour, or artillery, or logistics, or air support: its domestic politics mean than its a somewhere between unknown and unreliable as a military partner - if Ireland goes any further down the road of 'we'll provide some of the bodies, but you have to bring all the gear, and oh yes, we might just bale on you if the politics look bad', then no one is going to want to be your partner. hence loss of friends and loss of influence...

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          • #95
            Originally posted by ropebag View Post
            i think this in an unfortunate attitude to take in strategic terms - basing your doctrine, diplomacy and defence and security policy on the principle that someone else will always bring the expensive gear might be termed 'couragous'. its an insult, it means to do something dumber than pork.

            it also ignores the nature of the equipment and how its used - this type of locating equipment is employed at Coy and even Pln+ locations: it would seem to me foolish to build in a requirement for multi-national structures and formations at the Coy and Pln level - such formations require regular joint training, and create organisational friction even in the most well-honed formations, they are a necessary evil and as such should only be brought about when no other option exists. they never, ever work quite as well is if one nation had the resources and skills to do the job on its own.

            to swing back to the political and strategic, Ireland already doesn't bring airlift, or battlefield mobility, or armour, or artillery, or logistics, or air support: its domestic politics mean than its a somewhere between unknown and unreliable as a military partner - if Ireland goes any further down the road of 'we'll provide some of the bodies, but you have to bring all the gear, and oh yes, we might just bale on you if the politics look bad', then no one is going to want to be your partner. hence loss of friends and loss of influence...
            Agreed. Oh so agreed. OTOP I think Ireland needs to specialize - other nations do that too - and decide where to invest and where to rely on partners. Germany is buying 60 A-400Ms and is clearly specializing in air transport. Ireland is specializing in ISTAR, so let's get the cool equipment for that and leave other expensive kit for a mate to bring to the party.

            Edit: As for transporting the ISTAR company I'd like a Damen logics crossover for transporting it.
            Last edited by Graylion; 4 August 2016, 16:07. Reason: amending

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            • #96
              Are you a salesman for Damen?
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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              • #97
                Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                Are you a salesman for Damen?
                No - I am just convinced by their products

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                • #98
                  last government talked about this: http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1577106.ece

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                    No - I am just convinced by their products
                    Have you any experience of them?
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                    • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                      talk is cheap

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                      • Originally posted by zone 1 View Post
                        talk is cheap
                        True, but silence is cheaper and can't be held to ransom at a later date.

                        I find it interesting that the government, any Irish government, talked about capability gaps and then talked about filling them.

                        That is somewhat unusual behaviour - while it may, of course, not happen, I find it incredulous that a government put its head above the parapet on this issue with the intention of not doing anything about it - its easier and cheaper to say ' no problem here, neutral blah blah ' and have the political problem go away....

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                        • Yeah, but this was the last government. Also 1 radar? And presumably stationed in Dublin? That strikes me as not sensible.

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                          • This is quite interesting. As far as I can tell the radar did not make it into the whitepaper?

                             Ireland’s first White Paper on Defence was published in 2000. In the intervening period there have been significant changes in the security environment and the emergence of new and complex challenges. In this context, the Government decided that there was a requirement to prepare a new White Paper

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                            • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                              This is quite interesting. As far as I can tell the radar did not make it into the whitepaper?

                              http://flyinginireland.com/2015/06/f...rce-equipment/
                              Thought it was there under the "if we get money, we'll look at it"?

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                              • "Should additional funding become available, beyond that required to meet existing capabilities become available, the development of a radar surveillance capability is a priority for the Air Corps"

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