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  1. #1
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    MOWAG replacement

    So the Terex has been mentioned. Does an IFV fit DF doctrine? And 8-wheeler or track? CV 90 and Bronco come to mind.

  2. #2
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    I say 8x8 (as per most of the rest of the world)

    Tracked is too expensive and even more maintenance intensive.

    IFV is too expensive and is that to support armour (which we don't have)

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    Not a fan of IFVs anyway. As for tracks - how much of a gamechanger are rubber tracks?

    How about http://www.military-today.com/apc/iveco_superav.htm
    Last edited by Graylion; 26th August 2016 at 22:51.

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  6. #4
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    How does price compare with competitors for non turret versions?

  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    Why should we go for a design without any large users? I mean seriously why not learn some of the screw ups we've had and just go with a larger userbase design and then buy enough of them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Why should we go for a design without any large users? I mean seriously why not learn some of the screw ups we've had and just go with a larger userbase design and then buy enough of them?
    As in the Timoneys?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Why should we go for a design without any large users? I mean seriously why not learn some of the screw ups we've had and just go with a larger userbase design and then buy enough of them?


    Point. Here is an interesting list. The Patria looks the most successful


    http://www.army-technology.com/featu...riers-4142101/

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    What would be wrong with the Piranha V ? And upgrades / refurbishments for the existing fleet ?

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  13. #9
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    Mentioned by whom?

    Speculate all you like, but any MOWAG replacement will be subject to the usual tender process, user evaluation trials etc.
    Last time TERREX (Not Terex, they make construction excavators) didn't make the cut as it was not in full production, while Mowag and Pandur were already in full production and used by other armies.
    TERREX has a long way to come yet. Singapore are still currently the only operators. The USMC version under development is coming in currently at $7.5m per unit.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  15. #10
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    Patria looks like the most interesting one at the moment.

    So what versions would we foresee for a full compliment of 300?

    APC
    Fire support with what? 90mm MP?
    120mm Mortar carrier?
    Command?
    Ambulance?

  16. #11
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    300????

    ROFL an order for 100 would make me fall off the chair

  17. #12
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    300 would be fantastic, enough cars for the Cav, Infantry and everybody else. Very unrealistic though based on cost. Has anybody factored in the increase in weight with some of the hulls mentioned above and the cost of retraining crews to operate a new vehicle. If it came to it, more mowags might be the way to go.
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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  19. #13
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Turret or RWS?

  20. #14
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    RWS - Samson dual with either GPMG and 30x113 or HMG and AGL
    Last edited by Graylion; 27th August 2016 at 22:22.

  21. #15
    Rittmeister Herald's Avatar
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    Can we not just have one Walter thread for "The defence forces I'd like" in airfix?

  22. #16
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    regarding rubber tracks, didn't they get used by Canada on an M113 hull? These days, you can refit any tracked APC with rubber tracks. Great service life, too.

  23. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    regarding rubber tracks, didn't they get used by Canada on an M113 hull? These days, you can refit any tracked APC with rubber tracks. Great service life, too.
    Norwegians have them on their CV90s and got great use in 'stan

  24. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    Patria looks like the most interesting one at the moment.

    So what versions would we foresee for a full compliment of 300?

    APC
    Fire support with what? 90mm MP?
    120mm Mortar carrier?
    Command?
    Ambulance?
    The Patria AMOS 120mm appears to be a terrific asset, not least for counter battery role.

    Also..

    Engineering?
    Recovery?
    Anti-Air?
    Tank Destroyer? (Similar to M1134)
    Semper et ubique Fidelis

  25. #19
    C/S EUFighter's Avatar
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    The AMV has been fitted with turret from Cockeril with a 105mm gun. It could easily take a 120mm.
    The italians are upgrading their tank destroyers with a 120mm

  26. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    The AMV has been fitted with turret from Cockeril with a 105mm gun. It could easily take a 120mm.
    The italians are upgrading their tank destroyers with a 120mm
    I always wondered about the point of these large guns on light chassis. I know the South Africans intentionally did not arm their Rooikats with big guns so their commanders did not hit upon the idea of engaging MBTs. What about the Cockerill 90mm MP and some Spike LR?

  27. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Usual Suspect View Post
    The Patria AMOS 120mm appears to be a terrific asset, not least for counter battery role.

    Also..

    Engineering?
    Recovery?
    Anti-Air?
    Tank Destroyer? (Similar to M1134)
    Anti-Air: SkyRanger? With Giraffe 1X and RBS70 NG as well as Millennium guns?

    I like the tank destroyer idea - mix it in with the fire support vehicle?

  28. #22
    Private 3* Jungle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    regarding rubber tracks, didn't they get used by Canada on an M113 hull? These days, you can refit any tracked APC with rubber tracks. Great service life, too.
    Soucy Defense
    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

    Never give up!!"

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  30. #23
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    Not quite on topic, but a lovely one on the subject of IFVs: https://warisboring.com/the-comedy-t...t-2bc6aaa69457
    Last edited by Graylion; 29th August 2016 at 01:32.

  31. #24
    C/S EUFighter's Avatar
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    On the topic of operating tracked vehicles, we already do and they have rubber tracks; BV206. Not just the 206 uses rubber tracks but also the BvS10 and the Bronco/Warthog
    Most likely the most complex advanced piece of kit we have with their AD search radar!

  32. #25
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    The South African Rooikats have an APFSDS round. And what do we use APFSDS for? Ahhh yes talking out armour (also known as tanks).
    In fact during the Bush war they would use their Elan90's and Ratel90's to take out Angolan T55's. Tactic was to hit them from the sides. They would do the same today if they got the chance. The T54/55 series is still the only tank they are likely to meet.
    I don't think the SAA commanders are shy of engaging armour with the Rooikats.
    Reason for the 76mm was weight as the primary mission is very long range scouting as well as "seek and destroy" in sandy desert conditions. And if there is a chance then take out a tank or two!

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