MOWAG replacement

[DeV]

As would may tracked vehicles

If a tracked vehicle sheds a track due to a mine strike, a 8x8 may lose a wheel

[TangoSierra]

An 8x8 will probably loose more than 1 wheel to be fair.
And I think that tracked vehicles would have a better chance than what you think.
Tracked vehicles will always be better at off road than wheeled vehicles. Fact backed by science.

I'm not proposing the DF move to all tracked APCs. What I am trying to raise in discussion is that deployment options will be limited to roads or hard dry tracks with wheeled vehicles weighing 18tons. Confinement to roads and tracks will channel vehicles into the path of the most effective weapon used by irregular forces, IED's.

Irish forces were arguably the first to use this tactic against British occupation forces in the early 1900s. If Tommy had tracks, and was able to cut through fields and through houses, IED's effectiveness may have been curtailed to some extent.

Wet season in Chad put a halt to all road movement.

We've been here before by the way

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/archive/index.php/t-13293.html

[Galloglass]

An 8x8 will probably loose more than 1 wheel to be fair.
And I think that tracked vehicles would have a better chance than what you think.
Tracked vehicles will always be better at off road than wheeled vehicles. Fact backed by science.

I'm not proposing the DF move to all tracked APCs. What I am trying to raise in discussion is that deployment options will be limited to roads or hard dry tracks with wheeled vehicles weighing 18tons. Confinement to roads and tracks will channel vehicles into the path of the most effective weapon used by irregular forces, IED's.

Irish forces were arguably the first to use this tactic against British occupation forces in the early 1900s. If Tommy had tracks, and was able to cut through fields and through houses, IED's effectiveness may have been curtailed to some extent.

Wet season in Chad put a halt to all road movement.

We've been here before by the way

http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...p/t-13293.html

Nothing the British had (tracked or not) in the War of Independence could have coped with Irish "bocage" country. Probably still true.

[GoneToTheCanner]

A lot of the British vehicles of the period could not go off-road except to the most limited extent, ie, hard dry surfaces, because they had solid tyres and were only two-wheel drive and recovery vehicles were very limited or didn't exist, features which came to the fore when the National Army took over these vehicles and used them in the Civil War and found that the Brits had been right all along. The Anti-treaty forces began a wholesale campaign of blowing bridges and mining roads and sabotaging railways to keep the NA confined to the better roads and the major population hubs. A modern army in Ireland would not have to confine itself to roads if it didn't want to and modern vehicles are so much more capable and you have the addition of aircraft and modern UAVs and drones. There's few places left in Ireland that a vehicle can't get to.

[danno]

Modren 4wd tractors, despite generous clearance, large tyre blocks cant cope with boggy conditions.

[EUFighter]

If you want something to cross a bog, then it is a BvS10.

However most times if you can't cross a bog with your MOWAG, Leopard, CV90, then neither can those of your opponent.

[TangoSierra]

If you want something to cross a bog, then it is a BvS10.

However most times if you can't cross a bog with your MOWAG, Leopard, CV90, then neither can those of your opponent.

The Opponents won't have heavy mechanised forces. They'll have feet, motorbikes, Toyota hilux, mules, quad bikes, COTs UAS, and any number of innovative modifications to them

[na grohmiti]

Motorbike won't cross a bog either...

[GoneToTheCanner]

You look at Afghanistan and other countries (Sudan and Syria) that have extensive irrigation networks; the only thing getting in deep there is feet and smaller vehicles like motorbikes and quads. There's a point beyond which the vehicles have to stay outside, regardless of tracks or tyres and the lads have to go in on foot. Same with dense urban settings or even slums or small towns with narrow lanes. It's hard to pick a vehicle for all scenarios and please everybody.

[Graylion]

MOD: In the interest of fairness to other members and consisitency can you suggest why this would be a viable replacement in an IRISH DF context as per previous guidance given by the MODS in the thread.If unable this post will be moved to the foreign forces thread.We have already had this out and warnings etc issued over these types of posts.


MOD: Post edited and moved to Foreign Forces thread.

[The real Jack]

U.S. State Dept. approves sale of Stryker vehicles to Peru

$668M for 178 reconditioned cars

link

So that'd be €282M for 80 cars...and that's the second hand not made in Switzerland model... I can't see anything happening other than a upgrade/zero hour-ing project for what we have!

Edit and the Lituanians are going to spend €564M on 84 cars with 30mm RWS (PDF LINK)

[Banner]

Hi Folks, quick question. Do we use explosive reactive armour on the current fleet of Mowags, if not why not? (not an expert but I thought if you are putting troops in an environment where incoming RPG rounds are possible that it would be a "must have" item.)

Do you think it should be part of the requirement on any upgrade to the fleet?

Cheers

[The real Jack]

I dunno if anyone has, there's a big surface area to cover. Slatted armour was all the rage in Iraq but active protection systems are most likely better than ERA in terms of weight.

Edit I'm wrong strykers have had some.

[smegers]

It seems to me like it would be a bit risky to use ERA on a veichle with dismounts.

[apc]

MOD: In the interest of fairness to other members and consisitency can you suggest why this would be a viable replacement in an IRISH DF context as per previous guidance given by the MODS in the thread.If unable this post will be moved to the foreign forces thread.We have already had this out and warnings etc issued over these types of posts.


MOD: Post edited and moved to Foreign Forces thread.

Well I thought the Bronco ST NG was a good suggestion as a replacement for the MOWAG in certain circumstances, A mixture of vehicles can be a good thing rather than just being a wheeled for. Gives us the advantage of deploying a vehicle to suit the environment, ie boggy ground, monsoon season etc. Also it uses rubber band tracks which like the tyres on the MOWAG are made of rubber, it offers similar armour protection as the MOWAG, it can be mounted with weapons like the MOWAG , its amphibious and it can carry 16 crew and looks very like although a bit bigger that those BV things we have. We could also look at the BV10s which our nearest and dearest use, maybe get a good deal with MOU.
I wonder what experience ,feedback was like with the BV 206 has been?

Also why was the thread moved to the Foreign Forces section and not the exsisting AFV section, after all, all the vehicles the DF use are Foreign. Would the AFV section not be more suited. Just a thought but would it make more sense and cause me less confusion? I suppose the MOWAG thread itself should be moved to the AFV section too, to keep all the vehicle threads together instead of having to go to various threads to look at the current vehicle threads, again as I say this is just a suggestion that you may or may not like to take on board