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  • Originally posted by apc View Post
    It just throws out the opinion that 8x8 or Mowag are not the only options
    So go for either 4x4 or 6x6 probably less armour and definitely less mobility?
    Or go tracked for twice the price and probably three times the life cycle cost?

    Most countries are going 8x8 for APCs
    Last edited by DeV; 13 October 2016, 11:44.

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    • They will never get tracked vehicles again unless they are as light as Scorpions, because of the damage to roads and the sheer cost of maintaining even light tanks. If a track is only good for 10,000 km, then you have to truck the vehicle everywhere or adopt a very restrictive use policy, so a wheeled vehicle that can go anywhere under it's own steam makes so much more sense, especially on our limited budget.

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      • Well on paper comparing the following from the brochures:
        Piranha V
        Patria AMV XP
        Nextor VBCI
        ST Kinetics Terrex 2 (they don't have one for the 3 on the website)
        ARTEC Boxer

        It looks like the winner would be probably the Piranha 5. This is mainly due to mobility (as protection isn't normally advertised and firepower would be similar for all)

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        • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
          They will never get tracked vehicles again unless they are as light as Scorpions, because of the damage to roads and the sheer cost of maintaining even light tanks. If a track is only good for 10,000 km, then you have to truck the vehicle everywhere or adopt a very restrictive use policy, so a wheeled vehicle that can go anywhere under it's own steam makes so much more sense, especially on our limited budget.
          Armoured tracked recce vehicle for the DF should be something like the German Weasel

          Last edited by TangoSierra; 13 October 2016, 22:40.

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          • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
            Armoured tracked recce vehicle for the DF should be something like the German Weasel

            https://www.google.ie/search?q=germa...1-kI_4s9nlM%3A
            Too small to carry DE personnel
            Under armed
            Under armoured
            Poor surveillance equipment

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            • Aren't the Germans already scrapping those?

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              • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                Aren't the Germans already scrapping those?
                The Wiesel 2 was only introduced in 01, so I don't think those would be scrapped so soon, they are replacing the Marder with the Puma.

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                • They're in full use with Airborne forces

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                  • DE ? They're not supposed to be troop carriers. That's the job of the MONGOs it's paired with
                    ATGMs, stinger SAMs and 30mm auto cannons are the same if not more than what is currently mounted on DF vehicles. They also have better optics and thermals than the DF RWS

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                    • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
                      DE ? They're not supposed to be troop carriers. That's the job of the MONGOs it's paired with
                      ATGMs, stinger SAMs and 30mm auto cannons are the same if not more than what is currently mounted on DF vehicles. They also have better optics and thermals than the DF RWS
                      We talking about carrying 4-6 recce troops. The DF is too small for 1 trick ponies.

                      They are 20mm

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                      • Unless we are going to turn the Army into an Airborne Brigade then we should steer clear of Wiesel and Mongo. These are specialist vehicles purely for paratroop forces and thus have very restrictive design requirements that make them impractical for normal forces. Have you even been Insider a Wiesel? Well I have, and I can tell you it is not somewhere you want to be for any length of time. Except of course you are guarding you "pot of gold"!

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                        • Yes, I have and I ain't that small. Maybe my comments would be better placed in the context of a Reece vehicle for the DF rather than a one for one mowag replacement. Trying to do recce with a mowag CRV/MRV is like trying I sneak up on someone while riding an elephant

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                          • Is this not all moot ; are we not doing the SLEP ?
                            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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                            • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
                              Yes, I have and I ain't that small. Maybe my comments would be better placed in the context of a Reece vehicle for the DF rather than a one for one mowag replacement. Trying to do recce with a mowag CRV/MRV is like trying I sneak up on someone while riding an elephant
                              For the size of the Cav Corps at most your talking about under 30 vehicles (that's if they aren't operating another type (eg the LTAV).

                              The MOWAG is too big for a recce vehicle but it does carry a usefully sized DE who can then do CTR, local security, a raid etc etc (over 4 -V- 2 from a LTAV or similar). It has commonality with the APCs making training (crewman and maintenance), maintenance, spares holdings more efficient and cheaper. It also has the creep capability which I've witnessed first hand (you can hear a LTAV coming miles away). The roomer MOWAG also means the crew are more comfortable, can carry more equipment and can rotate easier (which are all important when doing long range / long duration work).

                              Also tracked vehicles are generally noisery than wheeled.

                              I wasn't sold on the idea but I am now.

                              Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                              Is this not all moot ; are we not doing the SLEP ?
                              Isn't that the MLU and conversion of some APCs to CRVs?

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                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post

                                Also tracked vehicles are generally noisery than wheeled.

                                Does that still hold with rubber treads?

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