Thanks Thanks:  17
Likes Likes:  17
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 38
  1. #1
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    701
    Post Thanks / Like

    Defence Forces Climate Survey

    Defence Forces Personnel

    31. Deputy Lisa Chambers asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if he will provide a report on the Defence Forces Climate Survey; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27129/16]

    Deputy Lisa Chambers: I ask the Minister of State to provide a report on the Defence Forces climate survey and to make a statement on the matter.

    Deputy Paul Kehoe: The independent monitoring group, IMG, was established in May 2002 to oversee the implementation of recommendations arising from a report on the interpersonal relationships within the Defence Forces. The Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, RACO, and the Permanent Defence Forces Representative Association, PDFORRA, are both represented on the IMG.

    The third and most recent IMG report was published in September 2014. Among its recommendations was that a climate survey be conducted within 12 months and subsequently at reasonable intervals. A similar survey was conducted in 2008. The aim of the survey, which was conducted by the University of Limerick, was to identify trends to inform best practice in human resources management and training and education within the Defence Forces. As with the 2008 survey, approximately 11% of the workforce - 1,055 personnel in this instance - was sampled.

    The report was received in the Department in June. I am sure the Deputy will appreciate that, given its importance and wide ranging subject matter, it was important to have the report reviewed in detail by the Department and Defence Forces management to consider the findings and reach a deeper understanding of the report and its implications. I also wished to have an opportunity to discuss and consider the findings of the report in consultation with the Chief of Staff and Secretary General in the first instance.

    It is now proper that the Defence Forces representative associations be given an opportunity to engage on the findings of the survey. With this in mind, I have arranged that the representative associations will meet personnel from the University of Limerick who conducted the survey on Thursday next, 29 September. The report will be published within a week of the meeting and I plan to meet representatives of the associations shortly thereafter. My officials are making arrangements in this regard.

    My priority in the first instance is to engage with the representative associations who represent the key stakeholders in this process, namely, Defence Forces personnel. As they have yet to see the report, it would not be appropriate for me to comment on the specific detail of the survey pending the briefing scheduled for 29 September. However, I can inform the Deputy that the findings are grouped under topics such as work life balance, peer support, organisational justice within the organisation, procedural justice, organisational fairness, Defence Forces integrity and supervisory justice.

    Deputy Lisa Chambers: The Minister of State indicated it would not be appropriate to comment on the findings of the report because the representative associations have not had access to it. The reason they have not had access is that the Minister of State has not given them access to it. He and I had this conversation at a meeting of the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs, Trade and Defence before the summer recess at which he informed me the report was on his deskand he needed time to review, analyse and digest it. I asked him to make the report available to the associations representing the soldiers who were the subject of the survey but he declined to do so at that juncture. It is September and the representative associations have not received a copy of the report. It is grossly inadequate to provide them with copies just before the meeting in Limerick as they will not have sufficient time to digest its contents and give the Minister of State their view on it. Soldiers are supposed to look to the Minister for guidance and leadership. They should be allowed an opportunity to analyse and digest the report in advance of the briefing in Limerick. The Minister of State should be willing to take on board their suggestions. Why has he failed to publish the report and give the representative associations a copy of given that it has been on his desk since June?

    Deputy Paul Kehoe: The report has not been on my desk in June. I did not receive a copy until mid to late July. On my appointment, I met representatives of PDFORRA and RACO who asked me to provide them with a copy prior to publication. I indicated I would do so and I will give them a copy of the report tomorrow prior to the presentation on Thursday in the University of Limerick. I will publish the report in the days after Thursday's meeting and meet representatives of PDFORRA and RACO shortly thereafter. I also assured both organisations that I will take their views on board.

    Deputy Chambers is correct that the most important people in the Defence Forces are the soldiers on the ground. I fully respect them and every time I attend a public forum with members of the Defence Forces, they are the first people I recognise. The members on the ground, both enlisted personnel and officers, are the glue that holds the Defence Forces together. We must appreciate their commitment to the organisation and I will do all in my power to ensure they are happy in the Defence Forces. However, I do not have at my disposal a bottomless pit of money to throw at this issue, which is about more than money.

    Deputy Lisa Chambers: Nobody mentioned money in this conversation. The Minister described members of the Defence Forces as the most important part of the conversation. He has had since mid-July to analyse and digest the report, yet he is giving RACO one day to do likewise. Is this fair? Is RACO, the representative body of the soldiers who are the subject of the climate survey, being afforded an adequate period to do so considering the time the Minister has had to consider the report?
    The general secretary of RACO stated that management had yet to engage with his organisation on the findings of the survey. In his words, it "does little to give confidence to members that senior management are actually interested in addressing genuine service concerns of personnel". I agree with him. The Minister's actions to date have not given any confidence to the representative organisations that he is interested in taking their views on board considering that he will give them a mere 24 hours to analyse the report before the meeting in Limerick. This is highly inadequate given the time the Minister has taken to consider it.

    Deputy Paul Kehoe: I tried to publish the report at the end of July but unfortunately the staff of the University of Limerick who carried out the review were not available at the time. I wanted those who were at the coalface and carried out the review to be present. I did not want other staff from the university to join me in giving the presentation to RACO and PDFORRA. I wanted those who produced the document to be present at the launch. Unfortunately, I was not available for most of August and I indicated the report would be published some time in September. My diary precluded publication in early September. For this reason, I will meet representatives of PDFORRA and RACO who will be provided with a copy of the climate survey prior to the presentation on Thursday at the University of Limerick. One or two days in the-----

    Deputy Lisa Chambers: It matters.

    Deputy Paul Kehoe: It does not matter.

    Deputy Lisa Chambers: The representative organisations say it matters.

    Deputy Paul Kehoe: The most important issue will be to address the detail of the document and make the changes it recommends. It will not make much of a difference if the document is provided 24 or 48 hours in advance. I will meet representatives of PDFORRA and RACO after the document is published and we will go through it in detail. I met both representative organisations in late June or early July and they were surprised to have a Minister seeking a meeting with them rather than vice versa.

  2. #2
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    701
    Post Thanks / Like
    Just getting this started before the inevitable sh!t storm

  3. #3
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    562
    Post Thanks / Like
    The report is going to be "interesting" to say the least.

  4. #4
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    3,192
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm so out of the loop here, I assume shit pay & conditions = unhappy worker bees?
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  5. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  6. #5
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    701
    Post Thanks / Like
    Money ain't everything.

  7. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  8. #6
    Colonel
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,435
    Post Thanks / Like
    Report on the Defence Forces "Your Say" Climate Survey 2015

    http://www.defence.ie/website.nsf/climate

  9. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
  10. #7
    Colonel
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,435
    Post Thanks / Like
    Majority in Defence Forces would look for another job - study

    A new report on the Defence Forces has found that the majority of soldiers, sailors and air corps personnel would look elsewhere for a job.

    While most felt they were doing something worthwhile for their country, they did not feel an obligation to stay in the Defence Forces, a report on well-being in the Defence Forces completed last year, and seen by RTÉ News, has found.

    The report explores the attitudes of Defence Forces personnel to their working lives across a wide range of areas and the findings are a mixture of the positive and the negative.

    There are high levels of satisfaction in areas such as leadership and work-life balance, and dissatisfaction with organisational and supervisory justice.

    While almost 70% felt obliged to work extra hours to get the job done, and over two thirds volunteer for it, the majority would look for another job outside the Defence Forces.

    Commuting is a significant problem, with 27% considering leaving because of the issue.

    More than three quarters felt their pay was not fair.

    Many personnel are not satisfied with the communication received from supervisors.

    They do not feel informed or involved, they do not feel they are being treated fairly, and overall, the report says there is a perception of a lack of justice in the Defence Forces.

    While 60% felt they were doing something worthwhile for their country, with commitment levels highest in the Army, that did not translate into a sense of loyalty to the organisation and an obligation to remain in it.

    Overall the report found satisfaction with military life had dropped from 64% in 2008 to 48% in 2014.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0930/820487-defence-forces/

  11. Thanks DeV, Truck Driver thanked for this post
  12. #8
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    701
    Post Thanks / Like
    http://www.thejournal.ie/defence-for...urce=shortlink


    5 hours ago 8,203 65
    LESS THAN HALF of Defence Forces personnel are satisfied with military life, a significant drop on 2008, according to a new report.

  13. #9
    Viking HavocIRL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    2,865
    Post Thanks / Like
    Yay time to get into some more arguments with civvy's on the journal
    To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

  14. Likes na grohmití, DeV, FMolloy liked this post
  15. #10
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,738
    Post Thanks / Like
    IMHO it is mainly down to 4 issues

    Pay & allowances (including public service pension levy)
    The reorg and associated postings
    The promotion & recruitment ban
    Regulations & instructions now being specific enough (and therefore not being implemented uniformly)
    Leadership (by that I mean not thinking through the effects of decisions)
    Leadership also crosses into consultation

    Now the fortunate/unfortunate thing is the DF is a military organisation with a can do approach. If they are told to do something they get on and do it. They don't go back and say for me to do x I need you to do y. And sometimes when they do it is a case of swing them up.

    I think that also bears out in this report.

  16. Likes jack08 liked this post
  17. #11
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    701
    Post Thanks / Like
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-35094501.html

    More than a quarter of military personnel are thinking about quitting their jobs in the Defence Forces because of the long commute to work, a survey has found.
    SHARE
    GO TO
    The research also found that 76pc do not feel obliged to remain in the Defence Forces, while one in four felt they would probably change jobs.
    Their views are included in the findings of a survey commissioned by the Defence Forces and completed last year. The survey report has not been officially published but its findings have been circulated internally within the past couple of days.

    A copy of the report, seen by the Irish Independent, reveals that satisfaction with military life has fallen from 64pc in a previous survey, carried out in 2008, to 48pc. Many of the conclusions will be a cause of concern from the military top brass as well as senior officials in the Department of Defence.
    But some of them will have been anticipated because of the huge changes implemented over the past four years which has resulted in the closure of four military barracks as well as a reduction of over 1,000 in the permanent force.

    The effective strength of the Defence Force is now below 9,000 although the authorised strength is 9,500, with about 50 members leaving every month, RACO general secretary Earnan Naughton said last night.
    The survey report disclosed that 27pc had considered leaving specifically because of commuting. But it also pointed out that the majority of respondents were neutral to positive in terms of work satisfaction.

    The survey was carried out among 11pc of the workforce and was said to be representative of rank, gender, and location.
    Irish Independent

  18. #12
    C/S ArdMhacha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Newry
    Posts
    282
    Post Thanks / Like
    In my own unit the day to day feeling among the majority of the lads is that the job is a dead end. The lack of promotion opportunities and courses are making lads minds up for them. I can't speak for other units but its a sad state of affairs in our place at the minute

  19. #13
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    701
    Post Thanks / Like
    Organisations with a healthy climate typically exhibit:
    • Integration of personal and organisational goals
    • Justice in treatment and equitable practices
    Mutual trust, consideration and support among different levels
    Open discussion of problems and conflict
    • Acceptance of the psychological contract between both parties
    • Equitable system of rewards
    • Opportunities for growth
    • Concern for quality of working life
    • Sense of identity with and loyalty to the organisation

    Page 23
    36% of respondents answered left (negative) of neutral to the question.

    I feel my peers have my best interests at heart
    If you include neutrals, this figure raises to 68%.

    22% of respondents answered negatively to the question

    I trust my peers
    If you include neutrals (i.e don't know if they trust or not) this figure rises to 54%.


    28.8% of respondents don't trust their supervisor / leader.

    This figure rises to 60.8% if you include the people who don't know if they do or not.



    This is IMO the single biggest damning indictment of the state of the DF highlighted in this report.

    Our profession is built on the bedrock of trust," said Army Chief of Staff Gen. Ray Odierno.

    "Trust is earned. It is not given."

    "It is not rank-oriented. It is deeds, not words."

    The trust between Soldiers and leaders is absolutely fundamental and critical to the profession, Odierno explained. The foundation of being an effective leader is to earn the trust of peers, subordinates and superiors.

    https://www.army.mil/article/89904
    Mission Command combines centralized intent with decentralized execution subsidiarity and promotes freedom and speed of action, and initiative, within defined constraints. Subordinates, understanding the commander's intentions, their own missions and the context of those missions, are told what effect they are to achieve and the reason why it needs to be achieved. They then decide within their delegated freedom of action how best to achieve their missions. Orders focus on providing intent, control measures, and objectives, allowing for greater freedom of action by subordinate commanders.[1] Mission Command is closely related to civilian management concept of workplace empowerment.

    Key Tenets
    Build cohesive teams through mutual trust
    Create shared understanding
    Provide a clear commander’s intent
    Exercise disciplined initiative
    Use mission orders
    Accept prudent risk.

    Until the question is answered postively by the majority of respondents, then the DF are at nothing.

    IMO the current leadership programs in place are not effective and require radical overhaul as well as addressing the issue of removing leaders who fail to cultivate trust within units.

    Talk of promotion opportunities is worthwhile but until there is a policy of removing under performance, this trust issue will continue to trend downward.
    Last edited by TangoSierra; 1st October 2016 at 14:01.

  20. Likes morpheus liked this post
  21. #14
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    701
    Post Thanks / Like
    While 11% of the overall DF population is a good sample size, I reckon over 90% could be polled in an online Survey either internet or intranet based very easily.

  22. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV, Graylion liked this post
  23. #15
    CQMS
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    114
    Post Thanks / Like
    I find the promotion thing peculiar to say the least. In the last 3 years we have had nearly 2000 promotions.

    Only a handful of pepole where left unpromoted from the orders of merit.

    The new system compared to old where the stripe was basically given to the senior man regardless of his suitability is light years ahead, it still of course has massive issues but the association have rightly stuck to their guns and made the dept. sit down and iron these things out.

    A process which should have been done after the first round but the dept. rushed it & caused lots of real problems in particular with the scoring martices.
    It should be possible using a proper file scoring system to have continuity of scores between interview boards, ie. if you have a demostrably better period since your last file review, your score should go up from the last time, certainly not go down.

    Without divulging your unit exactly what branch are you in? Cooks seem to be a real choke point as the old cooks (who don't actually cook!) don't seem to move at all, very frustrating on the younger and often far better trained chefs coming through. The youngest guys are fairly mobile given their skill set so they may leave service.

    I most certainly don't get the lack of courses, the courses need to be ran. End of story. Are units using the course to make sure that only the candidates they want are qualigned for promotion? They used to do the same in my unit many years to ensure that only the handpicked could stand for the interview thus ensuring only no competition from younger men.

    A lot of guys who didn't engage with the process, or hadnt keep their skills current or just where waiting for the guy ahead them to die so they would be gifted their stripes really got the hump and bailed out when younger more talented men past them out.

    This in turn created 100s more promotion's. Of course a few drill rounds slipped through but that is the fault of the boards who didn't do their jobs well enough. I knew the system was reasonably robust when I head a very senior man complaining that he was able to influence the board enough to get as he put it "my man" through. So that guy took too the manipulation of the vacancies instead to stuff the appointment's with his sycophants. Much harder to stop. Thankfully not my direct unit, phew!
    Last edited by Toolbox; 2nd October 2016 at 10:09.

  24. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
  25. #16
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    562
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm pretty sure I know what unit ArdMhaca is serving in.

    There's some units, even Infantry ones, where guys are doing a PNCO Cse and will then be left waiting 3 to 4 years, if not longer, to get promoted to Cpl. That's wrong on any level.

    Also, the promotion system for Pte to Cpl is broken. There's no merit involved whatsoever, it's purely a case of complete a PNCO Cse and then they'll just work through the list of lads in the unit based on when you completed your PNCO Cse and then seniority as the vacancies arise. There's zero incentive to actually perform on a PNCO Cse, rather than just pass it because promotion just comes down to army numbers. It's ridiculous.

  26. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV, The real Jack liked this post
  27. #17
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,738
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Toolbox View Post
    I find the promotion thing peculiar to say the least. In the last 3 years we have had nearly 2000 promotions
    !
    not many between 2007 and 2011 or so

  28. #18
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Isn't there a points system like courses completed that is taken into account for order for promotion ? Not much use RDF commenting I know as we were not surveyed ( I wish the survey was correctly titled as the PDF Climate Survey )

    Every (PDF) officer I know of is out the door with work and double and triple jobbing , several are looking eagerly at Civvy street ( some will get a severe shock but the most are smart enough to make it )
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  29. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV, The real Jack liked this post
  30. #19
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    562
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Isn't there a points system like courses completed that is taken into account for order for promotion ?
    Not for Pte to Cpl.

    It's solely down to when you did your PNCO Cse and then seniority.

  31. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  32. #20
    C/S ArdMhacha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Newry
    Posts
    282
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm in an infantry unit. It's mainly the promotion issue that is sapping the enthusiasm among Ptes in my unit. Lads who you would've thought would jump all over a Pots course are know questioning the point of putting themselves through the hassle. Getting screwed for 6 months in the BTC to be waiting years for a set of stripes. I enjoy my job and I try to approach it as enthusiastically as possible but the prospect of spending my career as a Pte is driving me and a lot of my mates to start looking elsewhere

  33. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
  34. #21
    Major General
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,332
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
    I'm pretty sure I know what unit ArdMhaca is serving in.

    There's some units, even Infantry ones, where guys are doing a PNCO Cse and will then be left waiting 3 to 4 years, if not longer, to get promoted to Cpl. That's wrong on any level.

    Also, the promotion system for Pte to Cpl is broken. There's no merit involved whatsoever, it's purely a case of complete a PNCO Cse and then they'll just work through the list of lads in the unit based on when you completed your PNCO Cse and then seniority as the vacancies arise. There's zero incentive to actually perform on a PNCO Cse, rather than just pass it because promotion just comes down to army numbers. It's ridiculous.
    I'm hearing the standard of JNCO coming through is also pretty horriffic. The most basic of drills (ones which a reservist on a pots course would have been RTUd for with a strongly worded letter to his/her CO) seem to be a mystery to them.
    The system is broken.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  35. #22
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    I disagree ( Note I am RDF so I may not see all of it ). Up to a few months ago I was watching PDF good 3* going on Pots courses. Getting the stripes seemed to happen fairly regularly ( Inf Unit ) and people didn't seem to be that long waiting. For the 3rd stripe - different matter - long long wait . But no expert here. However the standards of the lads being sent was fairly high in my view.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  36. Likes The real Jack liked this post
  37. #23
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,738
    Post Thanks / Like
    A huge number of PDF Std NCOs Cses have been run since the promotion ban came in. I think the was 1 year there was 3 in 1 year (definitely 2)

  38. #24
    Major General
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,332
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    I disagree ( Note I am RDF so I may not see all of it ). Up to a few months ago I was watching PDF good 3* going on Pots courses. Getting the stripes seemed to happen fairly regularly ( Inf Unit ) and people didn't seem to be that long waiting. For the 3rd stripe - different matter - long long wait . But no expert here. However the standards of the lads being sent was fairly high in my view.
    It could be the problem down this way was that large corps units got landed with too many average infantry unit folk wheen the 4th was disbanded. Or it could be that those from the 4th were landed in amongst larger corps units.
    Hard to say.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  39. #25
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    701
    Post Thanks / Like
    Are the Defence Forces facing a staff crisis?

    Retired Brigade General Ger Ahern joins us to discuss a recent survey which has revealed a low 'commitment to service' among the Defence Forces.

    Highlights from Newstalk Breakfast
    https://player.fm/series/highlights-...a-staff-crisis

  40. Thanks jack08, DeV thanked for this post

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •