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Defence Forces Personnel Strength Figures

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  • #46
    Sorry read the wrong figures

    Of course it doesn't say how many of them were on age groups/end of contract

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    • #47
      All the minister (for state) is interested in is looking good for his consituents. His derision towards his portfolio is clear when you see his oral answer at PQ.
      This government has abandoned the Defence Department, relegating it to just another government agency, as important as the CSO, or the Office of Data Protection.
      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

      Comment


      • #48
        A fall off in numbers was inevitable given the spate of Barrack closures , reduction in units and posts.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by DeV View Post
          Those numbers (in isolation) are nothing worrying really when you think there are about 400 recruits and 30 cadets inducted annually.

          A big issue is promotions IMHO, which effects the income, morale, retention, etc.
          400 recruits may well have been inducted but 400 recruits didn't finish training... So using them as a means to say "It's all ok" is just papering over the cracks.

          It's a fact that people are leaving the organisation in droves and not because of "natural wastage" or any other buzz words... It's because for many people it's just not a job worth doing anymore. It's not worth the stress, increased workload, time away from home/family and certainly not worth the time spent dealing with utter bullshit. Young lads are passing out as fully trained soldiers and within about a year, will start entertaining the idea of leaving the organisation.

          The outlook is bleak for the next few years.

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          • #50
            If you "listen" carefully to the PQ's etc the terms induction-enlisting are used which begs the question as to how many of these numbers are actually passing out-commissioning. Many are called few...etc.

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            • #51
              These are both PDF numbers and RDF numbers interspersed into this discussion, please be careful in what you are referring to. Annual PDF Attrition figures month by month by rank and service is not regularly asked as a PQ , it is not the same thing as PDF Strength as it takes no account of people in training . Another good question is number of people enlisted into RDF and PDF by service by month for GS and Cadets
              "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

              "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
                400 recruits may well have been inducted but 400 recruits didn't finish training... So using them as a means to say "It's all ok" is just papering over the cracks.

                It's a fact that people are leaving the organisation in droves and not because of "natural wastage" or any other buzz words... It's because for many people it's just not a job worth doing anymore. It's not worth the stress, increased workload, time away from home/family and certainly not worth the time spent dealing with utter bullshit. Young lads are passing out as fully trained soldiers and within about a year, will start entertaining the idea of leaving the organisation.

                The outlook is bleak for the next few years.
                I corrected myself.



                Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                These are both PDF numbers and RDF numbers interspersed into this discussion, please be careful in what you are referring to. Annual PDF Attrition figures month by month by rank and service is not regularly asked as a PQ , it is not the same thing as PDF Strength as it takes no account of people in training . Another good question is number of people enlisted into RDF and PDF by service by month for GS and Cadets
                Recruits (being a grade of Pte) and Cadets (having been enlisted as 3*s for the duration of their cadetship) are included in the figures for privates as they are on the DF's strength.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
                  400 recruits may well have been inducted but 400 recruits didn't finish training... So using them as a means to say "It's all ok" is just papering over the cracks.

                  It's a fact that people are leaving the organisation in droves and not because of "natural wastage" or any other buzz words... It's because for many people it's just not a job worth doing anymore. It's not worth the stress, increased workload, time away from home/family and certainly not worth the time spent dealing with utter bullshit. Young lads are passing out as fully trained soldiers and within about a year, will start entertaining the idea of leaving the organisation.

                  The outlook is bleak for the next few years.
                  I corrected myself.

                  But you'd expect say at least 200 to be living on TOE/age grounds alone annually

                  Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                  These are both PDF numbers and RDF numbers interspersed into this discussion, please be careful in what you are referring to. Annual PDF Attrition figures month by month by rank and service is not regularly asked as a PQ , it is not the same thing as PDF Strength as it takes no account of people in training . Another good question is number of people enlisted into RDF and PDF by service by month for GS and Cadets
                  Recruits (being a grade of Pte) and Cadets (having been enlisted as 3*s for the duration of their cadetship) are included in the figures for privates as they are on the DF's strength.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
                    Defence Forces Strength

                    28. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the extent to which the strength of the Army, Naval Service, Air Corps and reserves has fluctuated in the past ten years; if any changes in recruitment practice is envisaged to address any issues emerging; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33782/16]

                    Minister of State at the Department of Defence (Deputy Paul Kehoe): The following tabular statement outlines the extent to which the whole-time equivalent strength of the Army, Naval Service and Air Corps has fluctuated over the last ten years.


                    Table 1 – PDF Strength Fluctuation
                    Year Total Approved Strength
                    2011 9438
                    2012 9359
                    2016 9044
                    DAIL answers Wednesday 14th March 2012

                    Gives details of vacancy levels in PDF


                    4. Deputy Dara Calleary asked the Minister for Defence Alan Shatter the total number of retirements from the armed forces at the end of February 2012; the number of senior positions that are now vacant in the armed forces; the number of positions that have been or will be filled; his plans to maintain military capacities in view of these retirements; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14579/12]

                    Deputy Fergus O’Dowd:

                    As the Defence Forces are currently more than 500 below the agreed serving cadre of 9,500, phased recruitment of in excess of 500, I believe, will be undertaken in 2012. I am advised by the military authorities that a new recruitment competition will be advertised shortly.

                    PDF

                    Strength at 29 Feb 2012 8,918
                    That's a large disparity between answers given in the Dail in 2012 Vs ones given in 2016.

                    Four years on and the Defence Forces is still at the same figure, 500 under strength, despite how many being recruited over 4 years? 2000+?

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
                      That's a large disparity between answers given in the Dail in 2012 Vs ones given in 2016.

                      Four years on and the Defence Forces is still at the same figure, 500 under strength, despite how many being recruited over 4 years? 2000+?
                      The strength given by Paul Keogh is probably the end of year or something.

                      Because they are generally putting off attestation until towards the end of the year in order to save money that can be used elsewhere in Vote 36.

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                      • #56
                        End of year for 2011 was 9,438 (Kehoe) with end of Feb 2012 figure being 8,918 (O'Dowd)

                        In two months 510 people left??

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                        • #57
                          According to annual reports

                          Strength 31 Dec 11 was 9438
                          Strength 31 Dec 12 was 9359

                          633 having been inducted in 2012

                          So if my maths are correct 712 left in 2012

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                          • #58
                            Page 108 - Key Output Targets 2016

                            PDF strength 95-100%

                            Actual output was 9,044 in September with all probability that it fell below 9,000 by December. 9000/9,500 is <95%

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                            • #59


                              The Minister for State has stated that the DF strength at 31 December 2016 was 9,126 personnel, comprising 7,332 Army, 704 Air Corps and 1,090 Naval Service, whole time equivalent.

                              subtract the 690 new entrants that were inducted in 2016 (590 General Service and 100 Cadets), who have just finished or in the majority of cases are still in training you are left with only 8,436 trained personnel. When you subtract the additional 60 cadets (all services) still in training and the 72 personnel on leave of absence, the real figure approaches
                              8,300.

                              Subtract the 500 personnel overseas at any one time and you can see why Reserve Recruit applications are left on a desk for several months. It also shows why people are leaving in droves due to burnout and why emergency transplant patient transfer flights cannot be manned
                              Last edited by TangoSierra; 4 March 2017, 17:54.

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                              • #60
                                Add to that not having the personnel to answer the questions being asked

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