Defence Forces Personnel Strength Figures

[Auldsod]

Is there any reason why the recruitment system can't be decentralised again? It's 100% failed the way it is now.

[trellheim]

Is there any reason why the recruitment system can't be decentralised again? It's 100% failed the way it is now.

Not in the slightest for reserve; takes work off PDF and in fact typically much more experience with the process lies in the Reserve.

[DeV]

Is there any reason why the recruitment system can't be decentralised again? It's 100% failed the way it is now.

Single Force is the only reason

[Flamingo]

Is there any reason why the recruitment system can't be decentralised again? It's 100% failed the way it is now.

Given the way things work in general, if whoever was responsible for the current system is still in the loop then going back to the old system will be seen as admitting failure, so reverting to it won't happen just yet. However, once they are clear of the fallout, somebody new will have an earth shattering epiphany "The current system doesn't work" and invigorate their career (or justify their salary) by reinventing the wheel (i.e. go back to the old system), but painted in a nice new colour featuring the fashionable buzzwords of the day. These things are cyclical (which working in Health and the Railway have taught me!)

[DeV]

https://www.defence.ie/system/files/...-bill-2018.pdf

Defence Bill allowing for re-enlistment if former PDF personnel

[DaithiDub]

https://www.defence.ie/system/files/...-bill-2018.pdf

Defence Bill allowing for re-enlistment if former PDF personnel

And insert favourite gripes about what they could have changed in addition, but chose not to.

[DeV]

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.iris...t-13385145.amp

[Fantasia]

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.iris...t-13385145.amp

So many of our problems have stemmed from when the COS was looking for a gig elsewhere and fostered a culture where the DF had "to be seen to be leaning in" for the DOD.

We ended up leaning in so far we ended up getting buggered

[DeV]

I’d say it was a problem long (decades) before that

[TangoSierra]

The PDF have dropped to 8,989 WTE personnel

This is a net loss of 55 personnel over two years since first starting this thread.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/...=Defence+force

This is over 500 less than what is required to conduct minimum level defence forces operations (which itself is based on the entire 9,500 being fully trained and in appointment on island)

There is also just 2,023 reserve personnel (figure also includes 1st line reserve)

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/...=Defence+force

[morpheus]

New motto - "Do more with less"

[apod]

New motto - "Do more with less"

Nothing new about that Motto.Been doing that for decades.

[hptmurphy]

The PDF have dropped to 8,989 WTE personnel

I find the use of WTE in DF terms very troubling!

How is a DF WTE defined?

Normally a WTE is equated to a 39 hour full time ,whole time contract, AFAIK the DF don't work a pre defined working week in line with accept practises so it often takes more than one WTE to carry out a tasking... which suggest the actual strenght may be below that figure.

Strtenght vs establishment is a better comparrison so the actual shortfals can be highlighted.

Obvioulsy there would be differing opinions what vacancies have and haven't been filled but to justify replacement you have to be able to show actual vacancies. So If I put a whole battalion on paper and highlight all the appointments and then try to add names, how many will I come up short?

Now multiply it across the DF never mind attachments or postings recruits and pre discharges and give the real figure. Somehow or another I don't think it will reach to the number featured.

[DeV]

Does it include those on career breaks etc

[Fantasia]

WTE is the strength less anyone on unpaid leave such as career breaks etc.

It does include those on sick leave etc.

As for strength vs establishment, every single individual soldier has a gazette appointment. It is managed at unit and Bde level.

[TangoSierra]

WTE is the strength less anyone on unpaid leave such as career breaks etc.

It does include those on sick leave etc.

As for strength vs establishment, every single individual soldier has a gazette appointment. It is managed at unit and Bde level.

Really? Then why is there still a "General List" in effect?

[trellheim]

Really? Then why is there still a "General List" in effect?

or SWA .... I was going to say !

[apod]

Really? Then why is there still a "General List" in effect?

That's a very good point. Love to hear the answer to that.

[Fantasia]

Really? Then why is there still a "General List" in effect?

There is a general list but that is for officers. NCOs and Ptes are not on a General List.

Any surplus Ptes in a unit are quashing an appointment elsewhere. Most units have NCO deficiencies. Go to a Bn parade and see 40 Ptes being paraded by a Cpl.

[trellheim]

Yes indeed but that still does not rule out serving without appointment. There are still a ton in the RDF for example.

[Fantasia]

I was talking PDF, should have clarified

[TangoSierra]

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/...=Defence+force

Department of Defence
Defence Forces Data
Photo of Jack ChambersJack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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30. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the number serving in each rank in the Army in tabular form. [46235/18]

Photo of Jack ChambersJack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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31. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the number serving in each rank in the Air Corps in tabular form. [46236/18]

Photo of Jack ChambersJack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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32. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the number serving in each rank in the Naval Service in tabular form. [46237/18]

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 30, 31 and 32 together.

The whole time equivalent strength of the Army, Naval Service and Air Corps (as of 30 September 2018, the latest date for which figures are available) across each rank is set out in the following table:

Rank Army Naval Service Air Corps
Lieutenant General 1 0 0
Major General 2 0 0
Brigadier General 6 1 1
Colonel 34 2 2
Lieutenant Colonel 104 14 12
Commandant 252 51 38
Captain 268 47 42
Lieutenant 150 51 27
Sergeant Major 27 6 6
Battalion Quartermaster Sergeant 31 7 4
Company Sergeant 106 70 51
Company Quartermaster Sergeant 152 11 14
Sergeant 824 161 99
Corporal 1,169 140 122
Private 3,972 439 266
Cadet 149 22 36
Total 7,247 1,022 720
There is ongoing recruitment to the Defence Forces.

[TangoSierra]

Written answers
Tuesday, 6 November 2018
Department of Defence
Defence Forces Personnel Data
Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
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133. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the number of Defence Forces cadets who graduated in each of the past two years; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [45863/18]

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The details requested by the Deputy are set out in the following table:

Year No. of Cadets Commissioned
2016 35
2017 40
This year, a total of 88 cadets have been commissioned. This includes 6 Air Corps Officers who received their commissions on Friday 2 November 2018.

Recruitment to the Commissioned Ranks continues, and in that regard, the 95th cadet class was inducted on 24 September 2018, comprising of 86 cadets who will receive their commissions in early 2020. Two commissioning ceremonies are planned for early 2019, one in February and the other in March.

[DeV]

Written answers
Tuesday, 6 November 2018
Department of Defence
Defence Forces Personnel Data
Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin Bay North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

133. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the number of Defence Forces cadets who graduated in each of the past two years; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [45863/18]

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The details requested by the Deputy are set out in the following table:

Year No. of Cadets Commissioned
2016 35
2017 40
This year, a total of 88 cadets have been commissioned. This includes 6 Air Corps Officers who received their commissions on Friday 2 November 2018.

Recruitment to the Commissioned Ranks continues, and in that regard, the 95th cadet class was inducted on 24 September 2018, comprising of 86 cadets who will receive their commissions in early 2020. Two commissioning ceremonies are planned for early 2019, one in February and the other in March.

Is that the large classes being commissioned?

The NS & AC take longer but that’s a lot of drop outs

[TangoSierra]

I assume you read the part about 88 cadets commissioned this year 2018?