Thanks Thanks:  37
Likes Likes:  60
Dislikes Dislikes:  5
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 131
  1. #101
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    705
    Post Thanks / Like
    People aren't machines that come off an assembly line finished and ready for war. They have the basics but are not technically or tactically competent. Unit cohesion, teamwork, ethical and leadership development, relationship building, a driving and weapons course or two, experiential learning during the a daily grind, etc. There are those that will adapt quicker and have maturity, but there are those that will take longer. Also it takes longer than 3 years to develop corps tech personnel.

  2. Thanks apod thanked for this post
  3. #102
    Corporal irishrgr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Texas, USA
    Posts
    203
    Post Thanks / Like
    The raw personnel numbers are only an element of the equation. As was pointed out in an earlier post, effective strength is a more useful metric. IE subtract people on courses, long term sick leave, in training, etc. and you have a realistic picture.

    A better question to ask would be "What are the defined criteria for readiness and how many units can meet that metric?". Over 'ere readiness is part art & science but we are about to field a new system which will link training reports (say weapons scores), human resource data (unit strength, trained personnel, etc.), medical data (are people medically deployable?), equipment data (do you have it and is it working?) among some other data points. The initial tests of active units were ugly with a big "U". Reserve units, will be definition, only be able to get to a certain waypoint in readiness until called up.

    If the DF were to generate such data, that would be interesting. It may be done, and if so, the results should be rightly classified. However, as a general statement, the minister should be able to say something to the effect of "the mission required units are meeting the defined readiness standards" The ministers remarks of " the DF assure us they are capable of meeting all assigned requirements (paraphrase)" makes me raise an eyebrow. What mission and by what standard?

    Granted, Ireland doesn't have the need to have large forces ready to deploy in 72 hours, but surely there has to be some basic requirement even if it's a company sized element ready to deploy in 24 hours for and be self sustaining for 72 hours.

    Mind you, beyond numbers and the "don't close the barracks in my constituency" Ireland lacks any military advocate at the national policy level, so I don't see the hard questions being asked. Frustrating.

    A

  4. Likes ropebag, DeV, TangoSierra, Tempest, pym liked this post
  5. #103
    Corporal irishrgr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Texas, USA
    Posts
    203
    Post Thanks / Like
    Sorry, meant to add this. We have the same retention issues over here, people sign on, do a 4 year hitch and get out. It's constant churn of both officer and enlisted personnel. Re-enlistment bonuses, choice of duty assignment, schools, etc, are all handed out but we still bleed people. Some of it is self inflicted, we recruit a lot of young people to join & get school money, so they do and move on. Even a West Point officer only has to serve 6-8 years active. Bloody waste IMHO.

    A recent analysis also noted, like other employers, especially public service, the 20-30 demographic is not as set on the "same job for life" many of us grew up with. They try things, jump from career to career, no loyalty. I'd be willing to bet there is an element of that playing into things to in Ireland. Here they are trying to figure out how can career breaks, lateral entry and so on fit into the traditional career paths of the military...not a simple fix I'm sure.

  6. Thanks DeV, sofa thanked for this post
    Likes DeV, Shaqra liked this post
    Dislikes barrybadrinah disliked this post
  7. #104
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Posts
    509
    Post Thanks / Like
    Ireland doesn’t have the US problem to maintain what is basically an army in a dispersed, undeclared war without A draft.
    I don’t think it is necessarily a bad thing to have a constant churn of privates and corporals, so long as you can retain a solid NCO and officer corps and maintain technical skills. “Job for life” as a private is no longer that attractive and not every soldier can aim for the exalted and honourable rank of sergeant unless the army is constantly expanding.
    So long as the churn is managed, you are increasing the number of people in the country with direct knowledge of the military and that is only good for the attitude the country has to the forces. If those ex-soldiers had a decent experience.
    Having ten thousand or so voters in every generation who know what the DF does and needs is useful.
    But you have to pay the people you want to keep, and have enough other bodies so that everyone isn’t doing the job of ten.

    As for unit effectiveness, apart from border ops in the bad old days the DF has never needed to consider that because units do not deploy.

  8. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  9. #105
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Posts
    509
    Post Thanks / Like
    Which becomes part of the problem. So long as a battalion can be deployed the goverment doesn't know or care if it has to be scraped together from the odds and ends of a dysfunctional force.

  10. #106
    C/S
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    3,033
    Post Thanks / Like
    I parted ways with the PDF back in 1990 when my then girlfriend pointed out that if we wanted to get married and have kids then we couldn't afford it on a privates wage, so I ended up going to england cause there was **** all else in Dublin in 1990 (and ironically although I eventually got married and had kids, it was to somebody else).

    Point is they actually want privates to leave at a certain point and the salary for a three star is intended for and actually not bad for a young person with no responsibility. Its only problematic when you start to have adult responsibilities. Same with officers, when I was in they had as real glut of captains and some of them were ancient. I was on cash escorts with felow privates who were in the Congo and now that I'm their age i wonder how they managed it.

    But people leave for a lot of reasons, truth be told the job in peace time can be boring and frustrating, its not the real world, they promote terrible idiots simply because their face fits, there was in my day at least a real drinking culture, its an institrution and people get very institutionalsied, etc.
    Last edited by paul g; 1st November 2017 at 17:42.

  11. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  12. #107
    Corporal irishrgr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Texas, USA
    Posts
    203
    Post Thanks / Like
    I agree that "private for life" is not, nor it should be a career option. We have an "up or out system" for all ranks, you don't hit certain rank by certain timelines, then you are separated (kind word for discharged :-). It's designed to prevent stagnation and stop people "homesteading" at a certain rank. It has it's flaws as a technique, but it does keep the system moving.

    The tip of the spear is the junior officers/NCO's in any military organization and yes, that has to have constant new blood. Military service is a young mans game and the juniors are the ones who will do all the fighting (or whatever), so yes, some degree of churn is useful. However, the organization still needs to attract people and be able to offer a long term career if they so desire. Over here a privates wages are on a par with the Irish wages, as they are predicated on a young, single Soldier. However, that private has a reasonable chance of promoting to CPL/SGT in 4-5 years (assuming he/she does a good job) and so on up the chain after that. NCO and junior officer wages are decent, could be better for the senior NCO's IMHO, but it's a sustainable for a family.

    As expat01 said, as far as the govt. is concerned, if a battalion of random humans in green uniforms show up on the relevant day, there seems to be little interest in how the sausage was made. Until the govt. demands change, why would it happen? Politically, in Ireland, defense is an afterthought aside from the Easter parade and UN missions. What makes it frustrating is those who serve are stuck dealing with the crap end of this, struggling to make a career, serve their country, be a Soldier are met with indifferent leaders.

    Reading the results of the survey doesn't suggest a high state of morale or any kind of readiness either....sigh.....

  13. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV, ropebag liked this post
  14. #108
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    The junior ranks (privates, corporals, sergeants, 2/Lt’s, Lt’s and captains) of the army are and need to be a young persons game for physical reasons. The average person is at their physical peak around the age of 21 or so. There are a lot of variables and their are 50 years olds that could run rings around any 21 year old. But let’s talk averages.

    Where someone is in a tech appointment where it has taken 3+ years of investment to get them capable of doing tasks is a different matter.

    When I googled British Army age profile this came up
    https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...eport_2014.pdf

    At the time:
    55% of the British Army was under 30
    31% of the British Army was under 25
    12% of the British Army was over 40

    Average age officers was 37, other ranks 30

    The vast majority of those you leave the British Army are aged 24 or younger (>70%)

  15. #109
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Of course the offer/reward isn’t just pay. The DF I think is starting to look outside the box and go after some low hanging fruit, eg:

    - student travel time on courses
    - changes to how leave is taken
    - family friendly overseas trips
    - modularised courses

    It may sound stupid but the floral hanging baskets and tracksuit days also make a difference. It’s very small, it’s not financial and won’t put food on the table but...
    Last edited by DeV; 1st November 2017 at 19:54.

  16. #110
    Captain
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,738
    Post Thanks / Like
    The least challenging years the UK armed forces have had for both recruitment and retention were the years we were very publicly fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan...

    Aside from the pay, the housing etc, I think one of the elephants in the room is that energetic young people who want to see the world, work hard and use their skills will inevitably find a garrison Army very, very boring.

    We're having that problem - the people we want have no interest in wearing silly clothes and painting rocks for 8 years. They want to do the job, and the reduction of deployments, the loss of some overseas exercises is having a real impact - it's less of an issue for old farts like me, I just want to go to a warm building where I can sleep in peace while building up my pension, but for the people in their 20's and early 30's it's getting a bit boring, and they take the view that if the outside world might not be much more exciting, it is very much easier.
    Last edited by ropebag; 1st November 2017 at 20:22.

  17. Thanks DeV, sofa, Spark23 thanked for this post
    Likes DeV, The real Jack, EUFighter liked this post
  18. #111
    CQMS
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    144
    Post Thanks / Like
    The DF has a 12% turnover of personnel at present.

    People are leaving because the wages are shit.

  19. #112
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,129
    Post Thanks / Like
    People are leaving because the wages are shit.
    Yes they are leaving but it is not as simple as the wages, having been a PDF watcher since 1986.

    Don't get me wrong the wages are a massive issue, as is the absolute scandal/shame of PDF families on FIS.

    External employment availability and the massive reduction of people who see it as a long-term career option as career choice briefings get better are huge things as well.

    with an FG government there is very little chance of soldiers pay improving.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  20. Thanks EUFighter thanked for this post
  21. #113
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    And the more workload due to double/triple jobbing

  22. #114
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,129
    Post Thanks / Like
    People forget - it is difficult enough to replace Infantry NCOs but the time spent qualifying Corps NCOs to instructor level leads to much more pressure on those that are left , so more than double-hatting
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  23. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  24. #115
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    People forget - it is difficult enough to replace Infantry NCOs but the time spent qualifying Corps NCOs to instructor level leads to much more pressure on those that are left , so more than double-hatting
    Plus the effect it has on capability (eg EOD No2s)

  25. #116
    CQMS
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    185
    Post Thanks / Like
    PDF double jobbing, wouldn't know a real job if it bite them in the arse.

    MOD: Points awarded for trolling. If it continues a ban will ensue
    Last edited by Bravo20; 7th November 2017 at 13:34.

  26. Likes apod liked this post
    Dislikes Spark23, DeV disliked this post
  27. #117
    Brigadier General
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by popeye View Post
    PDF double jobbing, wouldn't know a real job if it bite them in the arse.
    Ok, tell us you story, Catch wife given one a admiring glance.? lady suggest a bit of role play, worried where she's getting these dirty idea's from.?

    Or are you just, one of the self loathing Irish.

    Hope it's the first one
    Last edited by sofa; 7th November 2017 at 01:17.

  28. Likes apod liked this post
  29. #118
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Posts
    509
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by popeye View Post
    PDF double jobbing, wouldn't know a real job if it bite them in the arse.
    A throwaway comment that has no value unless backed up by example and explanation.
    Tell us more.

  30. Likes The real Jack liked this post
  31. #119
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Metropolis
    Posts
    2,985
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by popeye View Post
    PDF double jobbing, wouldn't know a real job if it bite them in the arse.
    Who let Paul Murphy on the site FFS...
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  32. Likes Truck Driver liked this post
  33. #120
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,129
    Post Thanks / Like
    Please remain on-topic
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  34. #121
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,785
    Post Thanks / Like

  35. #122
    Major General
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,347
    Post Thanks / Like
    Can I propose a rule change that bans dev from posting a url to a news story without context? For those viewing the site on mobile platforms it makes it easier not to bother visiting the site at all.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  36. Likes ropebag, TangoSierra liked this post
  37. #123
    Colonel
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,436
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmit� View Post
    Can I propose a rule change that bans dev from posting a url to a news story without context? For those viewing the site on mobile platforms it makes it easier not to bother visiting the site at all.
    I second that. It's very annoying.

  38. Thanks na grohmit thanked for this post
    Likes ropebag liked this post
  39. #124
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Ever think that I could be on a mobile platform as well

  40. Likes apod liked this post
  41. #125
    Lt General apod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ass in the grass.
    Posts
    4,679
    Post Thanks / Like
    Touche.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  42. Likes Truck Driver liked this post

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •