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  • I parted ways with the PDF back in 1990 when my then girlfriend pointed out that if we wanted to get married and have kids then we couldn't afford it on a privates wage, so I ended up going to england cause there was **** all else in Dublin in 1990 (and ironically although I eventually got married and had kids, it was to somebody else).

    Point is they actually want privates to leave at a certain point and the salary for a three star is intended for and actually not bad for a young person with no responsibility. Its only problematic when you start to have adult responsibilities. Same with officers, when I was in they had as real glut of captains and some of them were ancient. I was on cash escorts with felow privates who were in the Congo and now that I'm their age i wonder how they managed it.

    But people leave for a lot of reasons, truth be told the job in peace time can be boring and frustrating, its not the real world, they promote terrible idiots simply because their face fits, there was in my day at least a real drinking culture, its an institrution and people get very institutionalsied, etc.
    Last edited by paul g; 1 November 2017, 17:42.

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    • I agree that "private for life" is not, nor it should be a career option. We have an "up or out system" for all ranks, you don't hit certain rank by certain timelines, then you are separated (kind word for discharged :-). It's designed to prevent stagnation and stop people "homesteading" at a certain rank. It has it's flaws as a technique, but it does keep the system moving.

      The tip of the spear is the junior officers/NCO's in any military organization and yes, that has to have constant new blood. Military service is a young mans game and the juniors are the ones who will do all the fighting (or whatever), so yes, some degree of churn is useful. However, the organization still needs to attract people and be able to offer a long term career if they so desire. Over here a privates wages are on a par with the Irish wages, as they are predicated on a young, single Soldier. However, that private has a reasonable chance of promoting to CPL/SGT in 4-5 years (assuming he/she does a good job) and so on up the chain after that. NCO and junior officer wages are decent, could be better for the senior NCO's IMHO, but it's a sustainable for a family.

      As expat01 said, as far as the govt. is concerned, if a battalion of random humans in green uniforms show up on the relevant day, there seems to be little interest in how the sausage was made. Until the govt. demands change, why would it happen? Politically, in Ireland, defense is an afterthought aside from the Easter parade and UN missions. What makes it frustrating is those who serve are stuck dealing with the crap end of this, struggling to make a career, serve their country, be a Soldier are met with indifferent leaders.

      Reading the results of the survey doesn't suggest a high state of morale or any kind of readiness either....sigh.....

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      • The junior ranks (privates, corporals, sergeants, 2/Lt’s, Lt’s and captains) of the army are and need to be a young persons game for physical reasons. The average person is at their physical peak around the age of 21 or so. There are a lot of variables and their are 50 years olds that could run rings around any 21 year old. But let’s talk averages.

        Where someone is in a tech appointment where it has taken 3+ years of investment to get them capable of doing tasks is a different matter.

        When I googled British Army age profile this came up


        At the time:
        55% of the British Army was under 30
        31% of the British Army was under 25
        12% of the British Army was over 40

        Average age officers was 37, other ranks 30

        The vast majority of those you leave the British Army are aged 24 or younger (>70%)

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        • Of course the offer/reward isn’t just pay. The DF I think is starting to look outside the box and go after some low hanging fruit, eg:

          - student travel time on courses
          - changes to how leave is taken
          - family friendly overseas trips
          - modularised courses

          It may sound stupid but the floral hanging baskets and tracksuit days also make a difference. It’s very small, it’s not financial and won’t put food on the table but...
          Last edited by DeV; 1 November 2017, 19:54.

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          • The least challenging years the UK armed forces have had for both recruitment and retention were the years we were very publicly fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan...

            Aside from the pay, the housing etc, I think one of the elephants in the room is that energetic young people who want to see the world, work hard and use their skills will inevitably find a garrison Army very, very boring.

            We're having that problem - the people we want have no interest in wearing silly clothes and painting rocks for 8 years. They want to do the job, and the reduction of deployments, the loss of some overseas exercises is having a real impact - it's less of an issue for old farts like me, I just want to go to a warm building where I can sleep in peace while building up my pension, but for the people in their 20's and early 30's it's getting a bit boring, and they take the view that if the outside world might not be much more exciting, it is very much easier.
            Last edited by ropebag; 1 November 2017, 20:22.

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            • The DF has a 12% turnover of personnel at present.

              People are leaving because the wages are shit.

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              • People are leaving because the wages are shit.
                Yes they are leaving but it is not as simple as the wages, having been a PDF watcher since 1986.

                Don't get me wrong the wages are a massive issue, as is the absolute scandal/shame of PDF families on FIS.

                External employment availability and the massive reduction of people who see it as a long-term career option as career choice briefings get better are huge things as well.

                with an FG government there is very little chance of soldiers pay improving.
                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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                • And the more workload due to double/triple jobbing

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                  • People forget - it is difficult enough to replace Infantry NCOs but the time spent qualifying Corps NCOs to instructor level leads to much more pressure on those that are left , so more than double-hatting
                    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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                    • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                      People forget - it is difficult enough to replace Infantry NCOs but the time spent qualifying Corps NCOs to instructor level leads to much more pressure on those that are left , so more than double-hatting
                      Plus the effect it has on capability (eg EOD No2s)

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                      • PDF double jobbing, wouldn't know a real job if it bite them in the arse.

                        MOD: Points awarded for trolling. If it continues a ban will ensue
                        Last edited by Bravo20; 7 November 2017, 13:34.

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                        • Originally posted by popeye View Post
                          PDF double jobbing, wouldn't know a real job if it bite them in the arse.
                          Ok, tell us you story, Catch wife given one a admiring glance.? lady suggest a bit of role play, worried where she's getting these dirty idea's from.?

                          Or are you just, one of the self loathing Irish.

                          Hope it's the first one
                          Last edited by sofa; 7 November 2017, 01:17.

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                          • Originally posted by popeye View Post
                            PDF double jobbing, wouldn't know a real job if it bite them in the arse.
                            A throwaway comment that has no value unless backed up by example and explanation.
                            Tell us more.

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                            • Originally posted by popeye View Post
                              PDF double jobbing, wouldn't know a real job if it bite them in the arse.
                              Who let Paul Murphy on the site FFS...
                              "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                              "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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                              • Please remain on-topic
                                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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