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Which Barracks Should Close Next? (Part 2)

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  • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
    Another reason for Bricins to close and colocate to either the Maher or rotunda

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/navy-me...ago-1521028800
    Well the Rotunda would be handy if you are expecting a lot of pregnency's in the Defence Forces .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

    Comment


    • Correct me if I'm wrong but were there not a few deliveries by Medics in Med? Are maternity/mid wife supports requirinig support in UNIFIL?

      I get that the whole of Bricins wouldn't transfer there but the work experience would be applicable to UN humanitarian missions.

      Comment


      • Potential here for Specsavers hearing aid add . I said send me a Medic not a Midwife .
        Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

        Comment


        • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
          Correct me if I'm wrong but were there not a few deliveries by Medics in Med? Are maternity/mid wife supports requirinig support in UNIFIL?

          I get that the whole of Bricins wouldn't transfer there but the work experience would be applicable to UN humanitarian missions.
          It would be value experience but Emergency Medicine, General Practice, General Surgery, Orthopaedics, etc etc would be more use

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
            Another reason for Bricins to close and colocate to either the Maher or rotunda

            https://www.wsj.com/articles/navy-me...ago-1521028800
            Co locate in to a Limerick Hospital so

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Laners View Post
              Potential here for Specsavers hearing aid add . I said send me a Medic not a Midwife .
              Off thread, my favourite midwife joke:

              During Storm Emma:
              “Push”
              “Aghhhh”
              “Come on, push harder”
              “Aghhhhh”
              “One more push should do it”
              “Aghhhhhhhh”
              “Great, that’s got the ambulance out of the showdrift, what hospital do you want to go to?”



              I’ll get my coat...
              'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
              'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
              Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
              He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
              http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

              Comment




              • KildareStreet.com
                Dáil debates
                Wednesday, 21 March 2018
                Ceisteanna - Questions - Priority Questions
                Defence Forces Properties
                10:55 am

                Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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                34. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the strategic development plans for military locations in the Dublin area, including McKee Barracks, Cathal Brugha Barracks, Casement Aerodrome and St. Bricin's barracks; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10741/18]

                Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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                I am keen to hear the Minister of State's views and plans for the development of military barracks in the greater Dublin area. We have the Baldonnel site, Casement Aerodrome, McKee Barracks on the north side, and Cathal Brugha Barracks. Is it possible to improve our military operations and the conditions for the Defence Forces? We could look at the Curragh and other potential sites as well and in the process use the likes of the Cathal Brugha Barracks site instead for cost rental public housing. The Minister of State will be aware of this because we had a Private Members' Bill in this regard. This would be of huge benefit to tackling the rental crisis gripping our city at present, particularly the south side of Dublin. Has he considered, and will he consider, reorganising our military infrastructure in the Dublin area to help facilitate this and to give the Army better facilities as an outcome of this approach? If not, why not?

                Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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                My Department’s focus is the development and improvement of the physical environment and living conditions in existing military facilities to ensure that the Defence Forces have the capability to deliver on all roles assigned by Government. This is achieved through the Defence Forces built infrastructure programme. The programme is designed to modernise and enhance the training, operational and accommodation facilities of the Defence Forces. It is predicated on operational requirements and is compiled on a priority needs basis by my Department in conjunction with the military authorities.

                The capital element of the programme focuses mainly on infrastructure projects, including the construction of new buildings and the refurbishment of facilities. In any one year, the programme provides for new project starts and for the continuation of building projects already under way.

                Some €35 million worth of projects are currently at various stages of implementation, ranging from design to construction. Some €14.2 million has been provided for the delivery of these projects in 2018. In addition to capital projects, ongoing works are required under the programme to ensure the upkeep and repair of barracks and other military facilities. Approximately €9 million has been provided for these works in 2018.

                To develop a strategic perspective on military infrastructural requirements into the future, the White Paper on Defence identified the need to develop a rolling five-year capital plan that takes account of the capability priority needs of the Defence Forces. This plan, which is based on a comprehensive survey of military infrastructural requirements, has identified potential projects at all the locations referred to by the Deputy in his question. The plan will be finalised in the coming months. It will provide a comprehensive framework for the roll-out of infrastructural developments over the next five years on a priority needs basis.

                More generally, the White Paper sets out the policy framework for the development of the Defence Forces in the period to 2025. To facilitate this, the 2018-27 national development plan provides for a capital allocation of €541 million for the five-year period to 2022. The national development plan recognises that defence provides part of the societal bedrock which allows society to function and thus contributes to national well-being across political, social, economic and environmental elements. This investment emphasises the importance attached by the Government to ensuring the Defence Forces have the capabilities needed to deliver on all the domestic and overseas roles assigned by the Government as set out in the White Paper.

                Comment


                • 11:05 am

                  Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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                  There is a chance that the process in which the Minister of State is engaged will look at strategic allocation to and investment in barracks. I think our Defence Forces have lost out and have been short-changed. They did not do well during the difficult period the country went through. More than anyone else, the members of the Defence Forces were affected by pay cuts and under-investment. This can now be seen in a variety of ways. I have been told by people who are close to the ground and have experience of the reorganisation of the Defence Forces that soldiers are now moving all over the country. People are coming down from Finner Camp to do barracks duties at Cathal Brugha Barracks. This involves a huge amount of travelling, which is one of the reasons for the high turnover of people within the Defence Forces. We do not give them enough support and resources. This is an opportunity for the Minister of State and the Defence Forces to modernise. This should not just be about a five-year capital programme involving €30 million or €50 million, as the Minister of State has mentioned, but it should be about thinking big with regard to how best to organise our defence operations in the Dublin area. Some 227 acres are available at Casement Aerodrome in Baldonnel, which is not a small site. Lands are also available at McKee Barracks and Cathal Brugha Barracks. Other nearby facilities include those at the Curragh. Will the Minister of State avail of this opportunity to tackle the housing crisis? More than that, in his role as Minister of State with responsibility for defence he has an opportunity to change the game by investing in our Defence Forces in a way that will give them a really modern and top-of-the-range facility in one of the locations I have mentioned.

                  Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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                  I understand the Deputy has tabled a Private Members' motion on this issue. I assume he is talking particularly about Cathal Brugha Barracks and McKee Barracks, which are in the greater Dublin area.

                  Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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                  I am talking about Cathal Brugha Barracks in particular.

                  Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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                  These two very important military installations which are in strategic locations in this city are vital for the Defence Forces. I hope every Member of this House understands why we need military installations at such strategic locations within the city. Projects worth approximately €5 million are at different stages, including design, tender and construction, at Cathal Brugha Barracks at the moment. There are absolutely no plans for the Defence Forces to move out of Cathal Brugha Barracks or McKee Barracks, which are two vital installations. I understand that there are housing needs, but I am sure plenty of other vacant public sites across the city can be used for housing purposes. When the Tánaiste, Deputy Coveney, served as Minister for Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government, he started to compile a register of all vacant lands owned by the State. I presume there is plenty of land within the greater Dublin area that can be used without having to touch Cathal Brugha Barracks or McKee Barracks at any stage.

                  Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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                  I am afraid it is not the case that there is plenty of land in the area we are thinking of. I am particularly interested in Cathal Brugha Barracks, which is in my constituency. The area in question is at the heart of the rental crisis. I assure the Minister of State that there are no other lands within the city area. What are the strategic military reasons for needing to have two military bases in the city? What is the strategic military risk that would arise if we had just one such facility? I suggest that if we concentrated on one facility, we could really modernise it by putting in first-class facilities. We could get funding to turn it into a top-of-the-range modern facility. Is it not true, as I have suggested to the Minister of State, that we have ended up with the worst of all worlds as a result of the military organisation we have done? Cathal Brugha Barracks has not been updated and kept up to standard. Soldiers are having to travel from all over the country to operate there. It is not worked in a co-ordinated manner. Is there not an opportunity here to think outside the box in a way that would improve facilities while helping to address the housing crisis, which is something we need to do? While I accept the need for certain security details, such as tracking money out of the Central Bank, I do not see why all three facilities are needed in Dublin city at this time. I suggest that Dublin's strategic military interests could be served from McKee Barracks and Casement Aerodrome, which is a half-hour ride down the road. Having armoured vehicles going through the main streets of Ranelagh and Rathmines is not a clever approach in many ways. What is the strategic reason for needing two facilities in the heart of the city?

                  Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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                  The reason for the strategic locations is a matter of the security of the State, and I am not going-----

                  Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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                  What is it?

                  Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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                  Deputy Ryan was a member of the Government for a while.

                  Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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                  Come on.

                  Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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                  He fully understands that I will not discuss issues relating to the security of the State here in the Chamber. We have been advised that the Defence Forces need these two strategic barracks for defence reasons.

                  Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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                  Could the Minister of State tell me privately later?

                  Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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                  I refer to Cathal Brugha Barracks and McKee Barracks.

                  Comment


                  • Minister with a pair of balls for once

                    Comment


                    • is Ryan a member here... looks like he's been reading my posts!!!!....and he could have stayed at home and read the answers!
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
                        Minister with a pair of balls for once
                        Who?

                        At the heart of the question is the real motivation behind the green party issue, and it is not concern for the homeless of dublin.

                        Let me put it together in quotes.
                        I am particularly interested in Cathal Brugha Barracks, which is in my constituency.
                        Lots of space with no resident voters.
                        Soldiers are having to travel from all over the country to operate there.
                        So they are on my turf, but not my voters
                        Having armoured vehicles going through the main streets of Ranelagh and Rathmines is not a clever approach in many ways.
                        My tree hugging voters are offended by the sight of military vehicles driving past their high class homes.
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                        Comment


                        • All the TD seems to be interested in is turning the site into houses. I wonder which builder/developer he is in the pocket of...
                          'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                          'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                          Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                          He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                          http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                          Comment


                          • In august 1990 I walked out the gates of CCB and into the big bad world parting company with the PDF, but a few things about it's strategic location, which was dictated by its proximity to the canal . Firstly the Brits had found the canal system invaluable in moving troops in 1798 and secondly they needed the canal for moving the fodder the horses needed. Neither are relevant today.

                            The veggies are right, its a large site that hardly anybody lives in and totally inappropriate for a modern army. I challenge anybody driving down the templeogue road who get stuck behind a mowag opposite bushy park to say its in a good location

                            The HSE are just as bad, the old fever hospital in cork street and leopardstown park hospital are two large sites that house very few people. Cork street just houses administrators for example.
                            Last edited by paul g; 25 March 2018, 21:48.

                            Comment


                            • Hmmm... Its a bit late to chime in but i disagree with the premise of this thread, especially when it concerns Dublin. It is worth pointing out that the old glass bottle site in Ringsend is a whopping 34 hectares area and is vacant. Maybe Ryan should concentrate on developing this first before further asset stripping the state. However I suspect that closing a barracks would better appeal to green sensibilities.

                              Everyone who mentioned St. Bricin's should note that AFAIK adjacent land from that site already given to the DCC over 10 years ago remains overgrown and vacant along with swathes of land behind O'Devaney gardens. All awaiting redevelopment.

                              Given it's location, i have absolutely no doubt(or need evidence to prove) that commercial interests lie behind the latest noise around CBB. I'm sure a lot of you will have heard plenty of talk about the inappropriateness of the mere existence of CBB at the height of the boom in '08. With the housing bubble inflating again the old political/developer nexus have the same agenda again.

                              The last time i looked Trinity College had a cricket pitch right bang in the city centre (in addition to their rugby pitch which in fairness does get used). How much use exactly do people think that gets?!!!!Cricket being such a non-elitist game of the people round here.... Doesn't anyone in the Greens think how many transgender syrian vegan refugees could be housed there?(Are you reading this Eamon? I'm giving you great ideas for free).
                              And thats not to mention a WHOLE GOLF COURSE next to RTE in Stillorgan. Again, i wouldn't be the first to observe that this isn't exactly a place to find your average Joe/Josephine. And then bear in mind that there are 7 golf courses within the M50 belt.



                              As regards housing ,the principle should be to redevelop vacant land first. Not take the easy option and flog whatever barracks we have left so the privileged classes can go on golfing and cricketing to their hearts content. Once those barracks are gone they will stay gone and will not be replaced in a like-for-like manner. I know that most of us here will agree that it appears to be DOD's mission to downgrade the DF in general and choke it of meaningful funding, capital investment in particular. The Green's rather naive cheerleaders on this thread should take note.

                              Comment


                              • Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)

                                We have been advised that the Defence Forces need these two strategic barracks for defence reasons.
                                "Defence Reasons"

                                General doesn't want to share a barracks with other Generals.
                                Advisors want to remain close to Camden St and other watering holes without having to give up free secure parking and free rent.
                                It's the closest barracks to the real southside rooysh.
                                Last edited by TangoSierra; 25 March 2018, 23:06.

                                Comment

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