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Which Barracks Should Close Next? (Part 2)

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  • The other option of course is the payment of a rent allowance.
    Looked for recently by PDFORRA as an equitable measure as the GS and PO's got that back in exchange for signing up to LRA2.

    Shot down by DPER as "Cost increasing".
    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
      https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2018-03-20a.16&s="Defence+forces+strength"+section%3Awrans



      MSA does not cover or dent the cost of living in a city that is now more expensive then London

      Also, a Sgt on €40,000 pa gross (incl MSA) even if coupled with a spouse/partner on a similar pay scale can now not afford the average house price that exists in all of counties Dublin and Wicklow. The maximum 3.5x mortgage level also means that Meath and Kildare will be out of reach in the next 2-3 years if house prices keep going the way their going.

      Not to mention the fact that rent prices are now over €500pm more than the monthly mortgage repayments.
      Having lived in London for years and Dublin now, the simple truth is that the cost of living in London is far higher and wages are far lower in the u.k.

      40k is in my book quite a good salary for a junior manager.

      Comment


      • 40k is for a Sgt which would in the current system take upwards of 8 years to achieve. 40k will go someway to being able to afford housing in Galway, limerick, cork, Kilkenny, Donegal, dundalk and south of Kildare but is almost completely inadequate for housing in Dublin and all other neighbouring counties. Not to mention one of the largest barracks in the country is also in the most expensive place in the country

        Comment


        • 40k for first point on the scale including MSA for a Sgt I would say is a reasonable ok salary (depending on what your doing and the situation in your station etc)....... issue is that isn’t what said Sgt is on!

          The figures are incorrect

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          • An infantry NCO that is getting promoted to Sgt in 2018 will on average have 12 - 15 years service, will invariably be married / as good as and have kids. 40k is a crap wage for the back bone of the organisation to be on when you look at the responsibilities that come with the promotion for a fiver a week and the fact that for many they end up scattered to the wind

            Comment


            • You won't get any argument from me on that point.

              Comment


              • For comparison, €40k is the rate of pay for the most junior grade of civil servant supervisor, who would have served in excess of just 8 years.
                So the Sgt in the brugha, responsible for the supervision of about 30 soldiers, with 15 years plus in uniform, is earning the same as the EO in the CSO next door, who will probably have responsibility for no more than 3 or 4 staff.
                Meanwhile, up the road in Rathgar road, the Garda Sgt, responsible for a particular unit of no more than 10 uniformed members is earning between €49k to €57k, plus allowances.
                It's a whole other debate, but it shows the difficulties members of the DF are facing, just trying to live near the place of work the state has decided they will serve within.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                Comment


                • As far as I can see, a pre 2011 contract Sgt on first point of scale is € 624.37 pw plus € 122.87 MSA

                  That’s € 38,856.48 gross (3% less than what the Minister says it is)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                    As far as I can see, a pre 2011 contract Sgt on first point of scale is € 624.37 pw plus € 122.87 MSA

                    That’s € 38,856.48 gross (3% less than what the Minister says it is)

                    http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/Su...56C7E00421C7E?
                    It's possible his figure is bulked up by adding in the aggregate allowances usually received by a Sgt on an annual basis. Fluffing up the figures.

                    Comment


                    • To go up €1200 a year on duty allowances, a person has to do about 30 duties a year. Add to that time spent on courses, exercises, other time away from home, you would be better off working in McDonalds with a nixer as a taxi driver

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
                        40k is for a Sgt which would in the current system take upwards of 8 years to achieve. 40k will go someway to being able to afford housing in Galway, limerick, cork, Kilkenny, Donegal, dundalk and south of Kildare but is almost completely inadequate for housing in Dublin and all other neighbouring counties. Not to mention one of the largest barracks in the country is also in the most expensive place in the country


                        Combined income of €92,000 now too low to afford mortgages for housing in Dublin, Cork and Galway

                        Comment


                        • yes the tiger is here again but quietly this time, the pain for many is tremendous. Even if you stuck everyone in the DFTC Kildare and Newbridge will be out of reach
                          "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                          "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
                            Case 1 - Cathal Brugha Barracks.

                            Current Site size is 42.41 acres

                            Only 3 recorded protected structures (Church, Michael Collins House and Gates).

                            SALE PRICE

                            In 2004, Clancy Barracks (13.65 acres) was sold for �25.4 Million. (�29.25 Million in 2016 money)
                            in 2003, Murphy Barracks, Ballincollig, Cork (97 acres) was sold for �42 million (approx �50 million in 2016 money)

                            Recently in 2016 near CBB:
                            Portobello House (0.21 acres) was sold for �10 Million.
                            2 Grand Canal (Nationwide BS HQ) (1.7 acres) was sold for �35 Million.

                            If you sold Cathal Brugha Barracks at Clancy Barracks price per acre (�2.14 million pa) = �90.878 Million

                            If you sold CBB at an average of Clancy and 2 Grand Canal prices = �482 Million

                            Development costs associated with the Clancy Barracks site was �285 Million (Bought for �80 Million after company went into receivership)


                            Development Potential

                            Clancy Bks yielded 420 Apts on 13.65 acres

                            Cathal Brugha could potentially yield 1,305 Apts on 42.41 acres.

                            At an average build cost of �250,000 per apt, this results in an Apt Build cost of �326.23 Million.

                            However,

                            Development cost per acre at Clancy was �19.65 Million per acre.

                            Applied to CBB, development cost would be �833.56 Million.


                            Therefore, to make it attractive for sale, the guide price would be around the Clancy Price per acre, i.e �90.878 Million



                            What to do with this!

                            A 4,500 sqm Warehouse/Vehicle Storage unit including 11,000 sqm concrete yard and associated site works costs �6 Million euro.
                            To put this in perspective, the current vehicle storage in 1 MIC is 2,100 sqm. This Warehouse/yard would house all existing DF Armour and some softskin transport as well as have space for stores/parts.

                            A 450 room student accommodation hotel/apt including a 25m swimming pool costs �36 Million.

                            There are several areas in DFTC that could take both facilities and then some. One suitable site would yield 20,000 Sqm. The other would yield 37,000 sqm.

                            If the old red brick accomodation blocks/storage buildings were leveled this could happen in under one year. Also these buildings are unlisted.


                            And oh, ya, you would still have �45 Million left over
                            Cathal Brugha Barracks, a 42-acre military base in the heart of Dublin’s southside, will be included in an assessment of publicly owned lands that could be developed for social and affordable housing, according to several government sources.The valuable site, located in housing minister Eoghan Murph


                            Department of Defence sounds alarm as Dublin's Cathal Brugha barracks goes on housing list

                            Comment




                            • DUBLIN ARMY BASE COULD BE USED FOR HOUSING
                              29 July 2018
                              Dublin Army Base Could Be Used For Housing
                              A Dublin army base could see it's land redeveloped.

                              Publicly owned lands, currently in the hands of the Department of Defence, the HSE, and education and training boards, are to be identified for potential development under a new national regeneration and development body.

                              The Landmark Development Agency will consider sites that could be used for public housing.

                              One of the sites that's been earmarked by goverment for redevelopment, according to the Sunday Times, is the Cathal Brugha Barracks, a 42 acre military base in Rathmines.

                              It's believed a portion of the site, possibly as much as half, could be turned into social and affordable homes.

                              Dublin Bus garages in the likes of Donnybrook, Clontarf and Ringsend could also be considered by the new Agency, that's expected to be launched later this year.

                              However with plans to increase public transport in the city into the future, it's expected the garages will be needed by the transport company.

                              Comment


                              • This happened in Limerick about 15 years ago. The former married quarters buildings that were used for FIBUA training were given over to the local authority to provide social housing. No alternative land was provided.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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