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View Poll Results: Which Barracks Should Close Next? (Multiple Choice)

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  • McKee Bks - Dublin

    5 9.80%
  • Cathal Brugha Bks - Dublin

    7 13.73%
  • St Bricins Hospital - Dublin

    29 56.86%
  • Casement Aerodrome - Dublin

    4 7.84%
  • Aiken Bks - Dundalk, Louth

    0 0%
  • Gormanston Aerodrome - Meath

    7 13.73%
  • Custume Bks - Athlone, Westmeath

    3 5.88%
  • Dún Uí Mhaoilíosa - Galway

    3 5.88%
  • Finner Camp - Donegal

    1 1.96%
  • Ballymullen Bks - Tralee

    23 45.10%
  • Stephens Bks - Kilkenny

    16 31.37%
  • Curragh Camp - Kildare

    0 0%
  • Collins Bks - Cork

    4 7.84%
  • Haulbowline - Cork

    3 5.88%
  • Sarsfield Bks - Limerick

    3 5.88%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #101
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    why does efficiency mean closing. What is the add value? But I can tell you now. The idea of spending millions on new Bks in Bal, is crazy. Do you honestly think, that you would get a purpose built Bks, before you sell of McKee and CBB? No. So you sell of both Bks, for less than they should. That money would then be put back in a big pot. Then over a number of years, through endless planning applications etc, you end up with nothing. 2 Cav, would get housed in the DFTC, as a stop gap measure. Then why would you build something for them. Same for CIS. Where would you put the Bde Hq. You would disband it. No we are down to a one bde+ structure. Great. All in the name of alleged efficiency.

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack08 View Post
    why does efficiency mean closing. What is the add value? But I can tell you now. The idea of spending millions on new Bks in Bal, is crazy. Do you honestly think, that you would get a purpose built Bks, before you sell of McKee and CBB? No. So you sell of both Bks, for less than they should. That money would then be put back in a big pot. Then over a number of years, through endless planning applications etc, you end up with nothing. 2 Cav, would get housed in the DFTC, as a stop gap measure. Then why would you build something for them. Same for CIS. Where would you put the Bde Hq. You would disband it. No we are down to a one bde+ structure. Great. All in the name of alleged efficiency.
    Which is why I say CBB should stay where it is

    DFHQ currently has:
    - Newbridge (COS, FOI, Press Office)
    - DFTC (An Cosantoir, Info officer)
    - McKee (D CIS, D Engr, D Ord, D Tpt, J7, HCF, DFAA, DFHQ CIS Coy)
    - CBB (Mil Archives)


    That’s from Military.ie

    Is that efficiency?

  4. #103
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    Noting the poll results, is Tralee closed yet? If not why not?
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  5. #104
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    I believe, there is more in McKee then that. Of course, it was the unrealistic reorg that has caused all these problems. You can solve a lot of these problems by moving a unit back to McKee, ie the 2 ar and of course I belive that Gormanston camp should become the recruit training center for all recruits in the DF, with an establishment, something like what the USMC have. You could even call it a school if you want. I firmly believe, that the idea of closing Bks is not the way forward. i believe that, when we cut, we just get cut. And being the best at cutting ourselves has not helped us in any way.

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  7. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack08 View Post
    I believe, there is more in McKee then that. Of course, it was the unrealistic reorg that has caused all these problems. You can solve a lot of these problems by moving a unit back to McKee, ie the 2 ar and of course I belive that Gormanston camp should become the recruit training center for all recruits in the DF, with an establishment, something like what the USMC have. You could even call it a school if you want. I firmly believe, that the idea of closing Bks is not the way forward. i believe that, when we cut, we just get cut. And being the best at cutting ourselves has not helped us in any way.
    I have read all your posts on this and from what I can see your argument is basically "lets not close another Bks because if we do it will lead to more downsizing".That it? Yeah?
    Now.Can I ask what equates moving of personnel from one Bks that's not needed, to another that is virtually empty but yet is sucking in manpower and funds like nobodies business, with redundancies and cuts??
    Answer?

    Nothing at all.

    Refill McKee.Now you have one less set of duties securing one location,saving resources and lessening the burden on troops and their families. Move the horsey crowd to the DFTC.They were there before in part and the Curragh is the home of the Irish Horse is it not? Leave Mil archives where they are.Let's face it there is no moving then after the money that was spent on the new building. With Horsey set moved to the DFTC you have plenty of room for expansion in Mckee.

    Now.Other than nostalgia and paranoia can anybody justify why Dublin needs two huge Bks.Especially when one is virtually empty and when you could make a few quid by selling the other and also SAVE money on overheads into the bargain???
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  9. #106
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    So I take it then, that you are advocating the closing of one bks to save on a Bk guard?

  10. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack08 View Post
    So I take it then, that you are advocating the closing of one bks to save on a Bk guard?
    That guard is coming at times from as far as Donegal

  11. #108
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    Oh the efficiency of the reorg. Wasn’t that how it was sold. It would make the DF more efficient.
    Last edited by jack08; 11th March 2018 at 20:39.

  12. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack08 View Post
    Oh the efficiency of the reorg. Wasn’t that how it was sold. It would make the DF more efficient.
    It was matching the strength of the DF at the time to an establishment

  13. #110
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    Rubbish.

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  15. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack08 View Post
    Rubbish.
    The ECF figures were very similar to the last PDF reorg establishment

  16. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The ECF figures were very similar to the last PDF reorg establishment
    The ECF figures were done first

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  18. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    The ECF figures were done first
    Yes and the strength wasn’t a million miles away from the ECF figures that were arrived at (or was it CRE?)

    Which wasn’t far off the reorg establishment

  19. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack08 View Post
    So I take it then, that you are advocating the closing of one bks to save on a Bk guard?
    Am I posting in Swahili or something or are you deliberately missing the point??

    (I am gonna use bold text to reiterate my point as you seem to be missing it entirely.)

    WE DON'T NEED TWO F***IN BARRACKS IN DUBLIN!!!!

    HAVING TWO BARRACKS BUT ONLY ENOUGH STAFF TO OPERATE ONE PROPERLY IS A DRAIN ON RESOURCES AND IS KILLING THE OPERATIONAL EFFECTIVENESS OF THE UNITS OUTSIDE OF DUBLIN WHO HAVE TO DETACH TROOPS THERE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN A FANTASY.


    Now. is that clear enough for you or do I need to write it in braille next??
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  21. #115
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    A Reorg of the DF, with NO military input.

  22. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack08 View Post
    A Reorg of the DF, with NO military input.
    The decision to reorg was political. It was announced in the Dail by Shatter without consultation of the DF. The implementation of the reorg was done by the DF, their sole constrains were 9500 pers and 2 Bdes.

    Originally there were hopes of 2 Bdes and Dublin based task force but that was rejected by the DOD

  23. #117
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    I didn’t know that one bk guard was such a drain

  24. #118
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    While I agree with you about reorg being political, Shatter didn't come up with it on his own!!

  25. #119
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    To correct myself the post reorg establishment was 500 personnel less than than the ECF

  26. #120
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    i believe that, when we cut, we just get cut.
    Something in that as history has shown.

    HAVING TWO BARRACKS BUT ONLY ENOUGH STAFF TO OPERATE ONE PROPERLY IS A DRAIN ON RESOURCES AND IS KILLING THE OPERATIONAL EFFECTIVENESS OF THE UNITS OUTSIDE OF DUBLIN WHO HAVE TO DETACH TROOPS THERE IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN A FANTASY
    .

    Absolute lunacy, but again its all about maintaining fifedoms. If there are two units in two locations that aren't self sufficient....make it one and stick them both under the same roof.... simple maths!

    Its has happened before.......
    Time for another break I think......

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  28. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    To correct myself the post reorg establishment was 500 personnel less than than the ECF
    Because the strength at the time of the ECF was 10,000 all ranks. The ECF was a mechanism by DPER to get a grip on public sector employment. The DF had a rigid structure so it wasn't an issue for us, other public sector bodies were not so lucky. It did allow us to get past the moratorium on promotions

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  30. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack08 View Post
    I didn’t know that one bk guard was such a drain
    It is. You are looking at about 160,000 man hours a year lost on doing duties/restoff for one barracks alone.

    Now add in rations, fuel, electricity, duty pay, administration hours for pay, rostering etc etc

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  32. #123
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    For a start I see nowhere in the Green Party's stupid plan does it say it wants to pay for the Brugha, they just want to take it for nothing, so the DF won't get a cent. They also claim there are only 91 troops based there and the barracks is completely run down. This is only the first part of their plan, no dought they will be after Collins, Sarsfield and Renmore in part two.

    There is not a chance of being able to accommodate all the units from the Brugha into McKee. There is a bit of space but it wouldn't even come close. Since the failed reorg, the Brugha, like most barracks that had to absorb units and troops from barrack closers is overflowing. Both barracks are about the same size.

    The duty problem could be fixed by moving a Coy from 7 Inf Bn to McKee, there would be no shortage of volunteers. But that won't happen as it will mean the mini minister and CoS admitting there is a problem which both keep denying exists.

    As for building a new barracks in Baldonnel or Gormanston, the cost would run into hundreds of millions. There have always been ambitious plans for Gormanston over the years, but all these have come to nothing, simply because there is no money.

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  34. #124
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    where are you getting 160,000 man hours from.
    Last edited by jack08; 11th March 2018 at 23:46.

  35. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Actually in this case they are right. Dublin has one too many Barracks at the moment.They moved all the troops out of Mckee but left the Directorates and the school of buns and as a result they are having to bring in troops from all over the 2BDE just to keep the place secure.What should happen is close the Brugha and move the units there to Mckee.That might prove problematic when you consider some of the historical buildings located in CBB but I am sure they could be listed or kept on by DoD and built around. Fair enough back in 2012 when they did the Bks cull the arse had fallen out of the property market but if you had to sell now CBB is as we know in D4,the most expensive real estate in the country.Besides would you want to seel McKee,which is arguably the best Bks we have architecture wise or CBB??

    No.Selling CBB would make money,save money and also improve the lives of the troops who are being dragged from as far away as Donegal to maintain the fantasy that we need to huge Barracks in Dublin
    Would argue that CBB is larger than McKee (unless my eyes deceive me).
    A huge building program would have to be undertaken in McKee to house all the units coing from CBB
    Agree that a sale of CBB would certainly be lucrative
    Rathmines is D6 though, not D4...
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