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Thread: Soldier 2017

  1. #351
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider pig View Post
    So what have they decided to go with and who made this decision?

    We’ve just been brushing off heavy dirt and using dubbing from time to time. Other than that there’s fec all you can do and they all lol different shades of brown now 🤷🏼*♂️
    No decision has been made yet.The General staff have yet to appoint the procurement board AFAIK. The report makes recommendations based on various factors.A LOT of effort was put into the report and it is well worth a read BTW.

    Dubbing on nubuck boots?They are fecked so.May as well not have put a breathable lining in as dubbing is an animal fat wax which will act like a barrier. Been doing a bit of research. Apparently the best thing to use is a suede brush to scrub of the finer dirt.A suede eraser to get rid of heavy dirt spots,a cleaner and then a proofer.
    https://trueoutdoors.ca/pub/media/ca...9500975352.jpg

    http://www.firestormkit.co.uk/index....roduct_id=2850
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  3. #352
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Tactical scenario summer: UBACS during the day. T-shirt under at night. Waterproof jacket carried and worn if necessary.Norgie carried and worn when static giving UBACS a chance to dry.
    Tactical scenario spring/autumn: UBACS during the day. Smock worn at night.Norgie worn under smock and over baselayer when static giving UBACS a chance to dry.
    Tactical scenario winter: UBACS during the day with long sleeve t-shirt underneath.Smock worn over at night. Snugpak worn under smock and over baselayer when static allowing UBACS to dry

    I used never use a shirt on the ground except during the summer in Lieu of smock. Now I see no use for them as we have UBACS.No good with GSBA.Shite wicking abilities and no warmth to weight ratio.

    PS: Only a spanner would try and wear a norgie under a UBACS.The UBACS are too tight fitting due to their design. Norgies are worn under DPM shirts or smocks(or if you are RDF over the DPM shirt)
    So are they sufficient layers for all climates? Jungle? Arctic?

  4. #353
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    How can an item that was introduced to save money be a waste of money? I would love to know your logic on this.
    It is a waste of money from a practical, useful point of view. As a garment it is not windproof enough, provides little insulation and is not waterproof enough. We already have garments that fulfill these needs perfectly well for both tactical and barrack use (smock, norgie/snugpak and wets).
    It has feck all ability to store any items bar a mobile phone.
    In effect it is a piece of corporate identity wear perfectly suited for photo-ops and seniors walking from offices to mess. Other than that has no practical military use.
    As Dev has said, an updated (or the old) wooly jumper would have been just as suitable.

    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Seriously I think you are only looking at this from an RDF perspective where you are only entitled to one smock and that smock is "technically" all you need(I know ye need two BTW).
    I am not in the RDF and have served my time in the PDF. You are not the only PDF member on the board, don't condescend others by assuming all are RDF or interested civvies.

    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Whereas back in day PDF troops in line units would need three(only scaled for two). 1 x "Good" Parade smock. 1x Day to day smock and 1x Field/tactical smock. As you replaced one the newest one became the Parade smock and the oldest the Tactical et etc.
    That practice has gone on for centuries in armies all over the world, not just the DF. And as you said, it's primarily due to senior officers wanting parades to appear a certain way and imposing restrictions an items not meant for parades. That is the big issue, issuing poorly thought out garments to re-inforce that attitude is not a remedy.
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqus are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

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  6. #354
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    So are they sufficient layers for all climates? Jungle? Arctic?
    No of course not.If you operate in the Arctic the emphasis is on not sweating(sweat freezes when static) so you strip down to just a wicking baselayer with a smock when mobile and layer up when static.

    UBACS is perfect for Jungle Ops. Our Officers use them in the DRC with no issues. I only wish we had them when I was in Liberia. You only need two changes in the Jungle one on you and a dry layer in your Bergen for sleeping in .Usually a long sleeve wicking baselayer.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  8. #355
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    It is a waste of money from a practical, useful point of view. As a garment it is not windproof enough, provides little insulation and is not waterproof enough. We already have garments that fulfill these needs perfectly well for both tactical and barrack use (smock, norgie/snugpak and wets)
    .
    Seriously?That's your argument? It is not intended to be worn tactically first off ,it is intended to be worn for routine Barracks parades and going from place to place in the Barracks NOT acting as a replacement for all our other items of kit.If the rain is torrential I will wear my wets.If I get caught in a shower walking to the HQ block my Bk jkt is fine.if the weather is really cold I can wear my Norgie under it.As for being practical and useful it is both.It keeps my smocks from wearing out quicker than intended and is quick to don and
    doff.
    It has feck all ability to store any items bar a mobile phone.
    Really? I can store carkeys,pens, a phone and even a map in it if necessary as it has four pockets which is plenty for everyday use.
    In effect it is a piece of corporate identity wear perfectly suited for photo-ops and seniors walking from offices to mess. Other than that has no practical military use.
    As Dev has said, an updated (or the old) wooly jumper would have been just as suitable.
    Bollocks. Oh and a jumper would still require a smock or wets as it has zero waterproof qualities when worn in the rain.Thanks but I prefer not getting soaked when on parade in the morning and having to change out five minutes later.
    I am not in the RDF and have served my time in the PDF. You are not the only PDF member on the board, don't condescend others by assuming all are RDF or interested civvies.
    Sorry but where exactly did I condescend you? I don't have a crystal ball and you never told me you were ex PDF.This forum is RDF top heavy so it was a natural assumption.
    That practice has gone on for centuries in armies all over the world, not just the DF. And as you said, it's primarily due to senior officers wanting parades to appear a certain way and imposing restrictions an items not meant for parades. That is the big issue, issuing poorly thought out garments to re-inforce that attitude is not a remedy.
    Perhaps but you ain't gonna change the Seniors attitude any time soon.
    Just out of curiosity how long are you out of the PDF?
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  9. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    UBACS is perfect for Jungle Ops. Our Officers use them in the DRC with no issues.
    LOL. I dont think it matters a damn what you wear when you are driving in an air conditioned vehicle from your air conditioned accommodation to your air conditioned workplace and back again.

    Irelands contribution to MONUSCO couldnt be further from "jungle ops". Anyone who has served there who isn't a walter mitty will tell you that.

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  11. #357
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    .Seriously?That's your argument? It is not intended to be worn tactically first off
    That's my entire point...now you've got it!!
    The whole idea of dpm introduction was one standard uniform that was suitable for all types of wear.....both barrack days and tactical use.
    Introducing items that are only for one or the other just defeats the original intention.
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqus are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

  12. #358
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Decisions can be changed if it turns out it doesn't work

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  14. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-RayOne View Post
    That's my entire point...now you've got it!!
    The whole idea of dpm introduction was one standard uniform that was suitable for all types of wear.....both barrack days and tactical use.
    Introducing items that are only for one or the other just defeats the original intention.
    I see your point, however.. You cannot be walking around a barracks doing your daily routine in smock and heavy boots. Most NCO's work from an office day to day running the Unit so you require different dress. We're not the only army who do this either.

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  16. #360
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    I can see it from both sides.

    But personally the older issued DPM kit was superior in design and quality to the current. And was suitable for barracks and field use

  17. #361
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    No of course not.If you operate in the Arctic the emphasis is on not sweating(sweat freezes when static) so you strip down to just a wicking baselayer with a smock when mobile and layer up when static.
    .
    What I mean is the layering (while static) of up to:
    L/sleeved breathable base layer
    UBACS (possibly)
    Norge
    Snugpak
    Smock
    W/P Jacket (if required)

    Sufficient?

    If it is happy days but should there be another layer there?

  18. #362
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    http://online.anyflip.com/tjtz/klri/...index.html#p=8

    For comparison, the U.K. black bag contents

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  20. #363
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    What I mean is the layering (while static) of up to:
    L/sleeved breathable base layer
    UBACS (possibly)
    Norge
    Snugpak
    Smock
    W/P Jacket (if required)

    Sufficient?

    If it is happy days but should there be another layer there?
    Dev.Seriously when would you ever need to wear all of that? You dressing up as fortycoats or something??
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  21. #364
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-RayOne View Post
    That's my entire point...now you've got it!!
    The whole idea of dpm introduction was one standard uniform that was suitable for all types of wear.....both barrack days and tactical use.
    Introducing items that are only for one or the other just defeats the original intention.
    Ok so.Lets get rid of the Snugpak,Driflos,Driflo shorts and long johns,UBACS,Shemag,Elmer Fudd Hat,DPM waterproofs,Goretex Boots,Boonie hat etc etc.
    None of those items were part of the original DPM kit.Time moves on though and so does necessity.

    You never answered my question though.When did you leave the PDF?
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  22. #365
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Dev.Seriously when would you ever need to wear all of that? You dressing up as fortycoats or something??
    The whole point is it needs to be suitable for all climates, desert, jungle, home, arctic

  23. #366
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The whole point is it needs to be suitable for all climates, desert, jungle, home, arctic
    It's not and nor should it be.We tried that when the DPMs first came out.It doesn't work. The so called "summer trousers" were not suitable in the Leb or Timor.Hence the advent of the tropical trousers which later became the summer trousers across the board.
    The Temperate DPM was not suited to Afghan either.Hence the Desert DPM's were born.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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