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Thread: Soldier 2017

  1. #26
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    I'm going to say it out loud, and am happy to be criticised for it.
    I never liked the hood on the current smock. Tactically I saw no use for it as on the ground the soldier was going to wear helmet or bush hat. In my experience it became a way for people to go about without headgear and not be noticed. If worn on duty it reduced situational awareness greatly. Ideally the hood should have rolled up under a collar. A removable hood is just something else that is going to be lost.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  3. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    I'm going to say it out loud, and am happy to be criticised for it.
    I never liked the hood on the current smock. Tactically I saw no use for it as on the ground the soldier was going to wear helmet or bush hat. In my experience it became a way for people to go about without headgear and not be noticed. If worn on duty it reduced situational awareness greatly. Ideally the hood should have rolled up under a collar. A removable hood is just something else that is going to be lost.
    Latest pattern DPM smock has a rollable / foldable hood AFAIR
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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  5. #28
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    He's right though. The times a smock hood will be used is so low its not worth it - you've either got a helmet on in the field or if you're on stag in the pissing rain you can't use it as sit awareness drops to a porthole , or raingear will do the job. I speak for myself. Others who go into the field more often may differ.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  6. #29
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    Brown Magnums on sale in KT-max Swords 40euro
    Last edited by sofa; 2nd January 2017 at 19:31.

  7. #30
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Whats your thinking behind that Apod?
    The fact that,despite being in service since 2007,most lads I know can't figure out how to use the various straps on the Bergen or how to fit the belt in the Battlevest properly. Also,despite being in service since 2010 only two people I know have figured out what the velcro strap inside the collar of the smock is for.

    Let's face it.Most of our lads are either too lazy or apathetic to bother finding out how things work properly and will just wear something as it's handed out from stores.Now the system is to blame also as we don't do educating our troops on new items of personal equipment well.Yes a TI might be drawn up but unless a training course is mandatory and the info doesn't get diluted then they tend to slip through the cracks.The amount of lads who haven't a clue how to properly fit the new sling or how to employ it is ridiculous for example.
    No.The more complicated you make an item for the average grunt the more of a bag of ham they are going to be IMHO.
    The modern Irish soldier is better educated,trained and equipped then any any other generation that has gone before.


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  9. #31
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    So we don't look to get better kit because some people are mongos?

    Doesn't stand up to scrutiny at all.

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  11. #32
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    How many had wrecked their new boots by bulling them before having to be told not to bull them? Even though the boots came in a box with care instructions and a tube of boot polish?
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  12. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
    So we don't look to get better kit because some people are mongos?

    Doesn't stand up to scrutiny at all.
    Sounds to me the NCO's are the mongs if this is the case

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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Let's face it.Most of our lads are either too lazy or apathetic to bother finding out how things work properly and will just wear something as it's handed out from stores.Now the system is to blame also as we don't do educating our troops on new items of personal equipment well.Yes a TI might be drawn up but unless a training course is mandatory and the info doesn't get diluted then they tend to slip through the cracks.The amount of lads who haven't a clue how to properly fit the new sling or how to employ it is ridiculous for example. No. The more complicated you make an item for the average grunt the more of a bag of ham they are going to be IMHO.
    I'll say a few things in reply to that:
    1. Not a good enough reason to not develop/improve/modernise kit or clothing. By that maxim we would still be in bullswool uniforms and .303's (something DoD would probably be delighted with not having to buy every increasing expensive kit)
    2. Yes, system probably to blame for not educating personnel how to properly use kit and equipment. But that means system needs to be improved rather than holding back devolopment or capability. Unfortunately, this sign is a poor reflection on commissioned and non commissioned leaders in our system if it cannot be fixed.
    3. Funny how strictest safety / training standards kept up for weapons and other such items of kit but we can't maintain them when training personnel to wear / deploy personnel issue items of clothing / kit??

    Despite the comments above Apod, what specifically is so complicated on the Felin combats?? Still intrigued for an answer.
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

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  16. #35
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    I'll say a few things in reply to that:
    1. Not a good enough reason to not develop/improve/modernise kit or clothing. By that maxim we would still be in bullswool uniforms and .303's (something DoD would probably be delighted with not having to buy every increasing expensive kit)
    I am all for modernising our kit.But the more bells and whistles you put on something the more complicated it becomes(for some) and the less likely it is to be used correctly.

    2. Yes, system probably to blame for not educating personnel how to properly use kit and equipment. But that means system needs to be improved rather than holding back devolopment or capability. Unfortunately, this sign is a poor reflection on commissioned and non commissioned leaders in our system if it cannot be fixed.
    Totally agree.Systemic laziness is at fault.For example other armies issue user guides everytime the issue new kit.We don't.A TI will be produced for big ticket items and sit on the IKON as, lets face it, no young fella is gonna be arsed to look it up.
    3. Funny how strictest safety / training standards kept up for weapons and other such items of kit but we can't maintain them when training personnel to wear / deploy personnel issue items of clothing / kit??
    It comes from on high and filters down. BSM's have a big part to play.They are supposed to set dress policy in a unit.How many actually do?The DF is great at telling us what to wear but not how to wear it.
    Despite the comments above Apod, what specifically is so complicated on the Felin combats?? Still intrigued for an answer.
    Too many straps,zips and buttons IMHO.
    The modern Irish soldier is better educated,trained and equipped then any any other generation that has gone before.


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  18. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    I am all for modernising our kit.But the more bells and whistles you put on something the more complicated it becomes(for some) and the less likely it is to be used correctly.
    .
    And expensive

  19. #37
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Soldier-proof is the term a lot of people should be using.

    There used to be a very good set of pullouts in Connect. Part of the great thing about these was that they became the de-facto standard ( e.g. for the Standard Course Gear Packing List or whatever ).

    It's worth noting that it wasn't JUST because it was an NCOTW thing but in addition it's because Connect has a much wider circulation - it gets seen by Privates and it gets pinned on walls , it's still Hardcopy.

    A simple set of basic ordnance pullouts "This is the CBA", "these are the components of the IPLCS", "IPLCS Packing" and so on . Doesn't replace recruit training but does complement and act as tacaide.

    One could have a repeating schedule of these probably every 36 months as new kit comes in
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  21. #38
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    I agree. That was the way to go.The "TACAIDE" feature in the Cosantoir started out this way but seemed to have missed that point.Instead of handy reference guides to how for example to shape a Beret we got why saluting is important and how to get a grid reference. Both of which subjects are better being taught as practical lessons
    Back when the DPM uniform last changed(2 years later BTW) their was a connect poster showing the various "new" tops and telling us how that they were better than the old kit.It never explained WHY they were better or how the items should be worn to compliment each other.
    Lost opportunities all around.
    The modern Irish soldier is better educated,trained and equipped then any any other generation that has gone before.


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  23. #39
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    Totally agree with you Trellheim. The Connect pullout for uniforms, webbing, etc. were great.
    In fact, I stashed these useful ones. The ones on wear of DPM uniform I scanned and used the photos in a PowerPoint presentation for classroom instruction of recruits to our unit, for instance. Also like the idea of these being given used on bulletin boards for reference. As Apod says, when will the average Pte be able to sit down and access IKON to reference this stuff. More to the point, how many would have access to same?
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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  25. #40
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    btw most recent connects are available here ( see the toolbar)

    http://digital.jmpublishing.ie/i/567...ter-march-2012

    but I do stand by the hardcopy . In fairness though most units I've been in get a fairly robust supply of Connects so all we need is people doing the content !

    I mean how hard can it be to do a battlevest breakdown every pouch strap and belt
    Last edited by trellheim; 3rd January 2017 at 23:33.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  27. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    .... mean how hard can it be to do a battlevest breakdown every pouch strap and belt
    Sounds like one for NCOTW or Inf Sch on behalf of D J7 to me....
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  28. #42
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Differs from unit to unit as to what to put in the pouches

    There was an NCOTW one in Connect for the Std NCOs Cse

  29. #43
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    Surely it should be uniform, with only differences that are corps specific?
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  30. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Surely it should be uniform, with only differences that are corps specific?
    Pray tell, why should it be uniform across an entire Corps or organisation as a whole?

  31. #45
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    Have there been any whispers of changing the CBA at all?
    Last edited by Captain Edmund Blackadder; 4th January 2017 at 23:13.
    Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.

  32. #46
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    It is also role specific.

    A driver will have a different load out than a rifleman, sniper, etc

  33. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    A driver will have a different load out than a rifleman, sniper, etc
    ...packet of fags, mars bars, haribo jellys, the Sun and a tacticool 10,000 lumen torch!
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

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  35. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-RayOne View Post
    ...packet of fags, mars bars, haribo jellys, the Sun and a tacticool 10,000 lumen torch!
    Well snipers would need reading material while they are waiting for a target to appear

  36. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Well snipers would need reading material while they are waiting for a target to appear
    Duh.. that's what smart phones are for... :D
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  38. #50
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    Back to point...improvements for smock and trousers, etc.

    Anybody else doing better versions of combat jackets that we could borrow ideas from?

    UK with PCS has pretty much relegated smock to an outer wear item when / only if CBA, webbing not worn. Instead using shirt (or UBACS or raingear if appropriate) as lightwieght outer with thermal layers below it in normal tactical roles.
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

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