Thanks Thanks:  3
Likes Likes:  7
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: Remote towers

  1. #1
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,040
    Post Thanks / Like

    Remote towers

    https://www.iaa.ie/news/2017/02/02/i...rial-a-success

    Could be good for regional airports getting more flights.

    Maybe Baldonnel?

  2. #2
    Captain Jetjock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,697
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    https://www.iaa.ie/news/2017/02/02/i...rial-a-success

    Could be good for regional airports getting more flights.

    Maybe Baldonnel?
    Won't have anything to do with new business for airports. It will simply be used to cut staffing requirements at quiet periods at Cork and Shannon i.e. Between midnight and 6 am both airports could be controlled by a single operator in Dublin.

    Given that Bal is the only military airfield and will always be military staffed, this has zero applications for the IAC. Why would you want to control it from any other location? There are no benefits to that.

    But it sure is cool.

  3. #3
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,040
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    Won't have anything to do with new business for airports. It will simply be used to cut staffing requirements at quiet periods at Cork and Shannon i.e. Between midnight and 6 am both airports could be controlled by a single operator in Dublin.

    Given that Bal is the only military airfield and will always be military staffed, this has zero applications for the IAC. Why would you want to control it from any other location? There are no benefits to that.

    But it sure is cool.
    You missed that AC ATC personnel shortages were effecting 24/7 ops from Baldonnel then?

  4. #4
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    3,114
    Post Thanks / Like
    Couldn't ATC for bal be done by Dublin airport? You're talking tens of movements per day surely.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  5. #5
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,040
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    Couldn't ATC for bal be done by Dublin airport? You're talking tens of movements per day surely.
    With this probably no reason why not once validated

  6. #6
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    dublin
    Posts
    1,251
    Post Thanks / Like
    But who then will provide ATC when the fly boys go overseas with their helis??
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

  7. Likes The real Jack liked this post
  8. #7
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,040
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by X-RayOne View Post
    But who then will provide ATC when the fly boys go overseas with their helis??
    Well as I said if it can't be done at home....

    It would give them flexibility at least

  9. #8
    Corporal
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    149
    Post Thanks / Like
    Don't worry,
    they won't.

  10. #9
    Brigadier General
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,539
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    Won't have anything to do with new business for airports. It will simply be used to cut staffing requirements at quiet periods at Cork and Shannon i.e. Between midnight and 6 am both airports could be controlled by a single operator in Dublin.

    Given that Bal is the only military airfield and will always be military staffed, this has zero applications for the IAC. Why would you want to control it from any other location? There are no benefits to that.

    But it sure is cool.
    Was there a issue lately were night time transplant transfers to Britain could not be guaranteed due to shortage of ATC in Bal after hours

  11. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  12. #10
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,040
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    Was there a issue lately were night time transplant transfers to Britain could not be guaranteed due to shortage of ATC in Bal after hours
    As illuded to in posts 3 & 7

  13. Thanks sofa thanked for this post
  14. #11
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,040
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    Couldn't ATC for bal be done by Dublin airport? You're talking tens of movements per day surely.
    Because some parts of the job you have to be able to see the aircraft (but with this trial that could be done from elsewhere)

    http://www.military.ie/air-corps/org...-wing/505-sqn/

  15. #12
    Major General
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,009
    Post Thanks / Like
    Bal gets its radar feed from Dublin .

  16. #13
    Major General
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,009
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    Was there a issue lately were night time transplant transfers to Britain could not be guaranteed due to shortage of ATC in Bal after hours
    Even with the allowance the pay for IAC controllers is way off what IAA's get. The average pay in that org, all ranks & grades is 91k p/a.

  17. Likes DeV liked this post
  18. #14
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    3,114
    Post Thanks / Like
    Can AC ATC directly slot into the civi ATC gig or do they need different exams/training?
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  19. #15
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,040
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    Can AC ATC directly slot into the civi ATC gig or do they need different exams/training?
    They are trained to EASA standards I think

  20. Likes The real Jack liked this post
  21. #16
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,040
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Bal gets its radar feed from Dublin .
    Local radar too AFAIK

  22. #17
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,040
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Even with the allowance the pay for IAC controllers is way off what IAA's get. The average pay in that org, all ranks & grades is 91k p/a.
    Very nice new HQ in the Old Irish Times Building too!

    IAA Controller training is 16 months completely unpaid, no accommodation, no expenses, etc

    And if you leave within 7 years of controller training you have to repay € 85,000

  23. #18
    Brigadier General
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    2,539
    Post Thanks / Like
    Do AC ATCs still have a screen manned out in Dublin Airport ATC

  24. #19
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,040
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    Do AC ATCs still have a screen manned out in Dublin Airport ATC
    Yes not sure if permanently manned

  25. Thanks sofa thanked for this post
  26. #20
    C/S
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,231
    Post Thanks / Like
    The Mil screen out in Dub ATC was a joke and regarded as so by the civvie ATC, who could see everything that was going on, anyway, apart from a few isolated spots blanked by hills. It was a sub run for Mil ATC types.

  27. #21
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,040
    Post Thanks / Like
    AC should have been all over this in an IMERC type collaboration. Imagine being able to conduct remote ATC in an overseas type scenario (not necessarily of Irish a/c)?

    Also IMHO it's time for a collaborative approach with IAA (there will never be a better time with an ex GOC as one heads). Shortage of AC ATC personnel is now effecting ops, not sure if their is a class due for ratings soon but the IAA are currently advertising for an ATC class.

    IAA training is 16 months, worth €85,000, zero pay, zero expenses paid and no guarantee of a job at the end. If you do get a job the pay back period with 8 years.

    2/3 AC places on the course, maybe some use of AC instrs and facilities
    Last edited by DeV; 1st March 2017 at 19:27.

  28. Likes Tempest liked this post
  29. #22
    Major General
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,009
    Post Thanks / Like
    The IAA seem to be the only native air player with a good news story;

    https://www.iaa.ie/media-centre/2017...e-towers-trial

    https://www.iaa.ie/media-centre/2017...tc-awards-2017

  30. Likes DeV liked this post
  31. #23
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Metropolis
    Posts
    2,890
    Post Thanks / Like
    And without the requisite security that remote tower and thus, the airfield in question, can be taken down either via organic or digital means. I see only a use for this in the civilian aviation industry at the minute, in ireland anyway.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  32. #24
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,040
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    And without the requisite security that remote tower and thus, the airfield in question, can be taken down either via organic or digital means. I see only a use for this in the civilian aviation industry at the minute, in ireland anyway.

    I'm not talking a remote airfield in the middle of nowhere with no one around.

    For the civil side, it is an airport/airfield with the necessary security, CRS and associated services.

    On the military side, it could be say at the landing strip in a base



    Obviously this system will take time to get through the necessary hoops and hurdles but imagine there was a continuing issue with Military ATC at Baldonnel, it may not be just the strength it could be the establishment that is the current issue, wouldn't it benefit recruitment and retention to Mil ATC if the lower demand times (generally night and weekends) were done from Dublin ATC ?

    Of course then the argument comes that give them and inch and they'll take a mile.....

    Or put the facilities in place in Baldonnel that they can control Dublin in the event of an ATC strike

  33. #25
    Captain Jetjock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,697
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    wouldn't it benefit recruitment and retention to Mil ATC if the lower demand times (generally night and weekends) were done from Dublin ATC ?
    Anyone who joins the military and expects nights/weekends off as a matter of course can bugger right off.

    A good start would be to pay people a decent wage to stay, then staff mission critical sections like ATC adequately so such working hours are spread around fairly. Maybe equip the Air Corps a bit better and challenge people. If the highlight of your day was repeatedly saying "Cleared touch and go" to circuit bashing Pilatus you'd jump out the tower window after a few months.

  34. Likes morpheus liked this post

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •