Originally posted by danno
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Originally posted by danno View PostEven with the allowance the pay for IAC controllers is way off what IAA's get. The average pay in that org, all ranks & grades is 91k p/a.
IAA Controller training is 16 months completely unpaid, no accommodation, no expenses, etc
And if you leave within 7 years of controller training you have to repay € 85,000
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AC should have been all over this in an IMERC type collaboration. Imagine being able to conduct remote ATC in an overseas type scenario (not necessarily of Irish a/c)?
Also IMHO it's time for a collaborative approach with IAA (there will never be a better time with an ex GOC as one heads). Shortage of AC ATC personnel is now effecting ops, not sure if their is a class due for ratings soon but the IAA are currently advertising for an ATC class.
IAA training is 16 months, worth €85,000, zero pay, zero expenses paid and no guarantee of a job at the end. If you do get a job the pay back period with 8 years.
2/3 AC places on the course, maybe some use of AC instrs and facilitiesLast edited by DeV; 1 March 2017, 19:27.
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And without the requisite security that remote tower and thus, the airfield in question, can be taken down either via organic or digital means. I see only a use for this in the civilian aviation industry at the minute, in ireland anyway."He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
"No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."
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Originally posted by morpheus View PostAnd without the requisite security that remote tower and thus, the airfield in question, can be taken down either via organic or digital means. I see only a use for this in the civilian aviation industry at the minute, in ireland anyway.
I'm not talking a remote airfield in the middle of nowhere with no one around.
For the civil side, it is an airport/airfield with the necessary security, CRS and associated services.
On the military side, it could be say at the landing strip in a base
Obviously this system will take time to get through the necessary hoops and hurdles but imagine there was a continuing issue with Military ATC at Baldonnel, it may not be just the strength it could be the establishment that is the current issue, wouldn't it benefit recruitment and retention to Mil ATC if the lower demand times (generally night and weekends) were done from Dublin ATC ?
Of course then the argument comes that give them and inch and they'll take a mile.....
Or put the facilities in place in Baldonnel that they can control Dublin in the event of an ATC strike
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Originally posted by DeV View Postwouldn't it benefit recruitment and retention to Mil ATC if the lower demand times (generally night and weekends) were done from Dublin ATC ?
A good start would be to pay people a decent wage to stay, then staff mission critical sections like ATC adequately so such working hours are spread around fairly. Maybe equip the Air Corps a bit better and challenge people. If the highlight of your day was repeatedly saying "Cleared touch and go" to circuit bashing Pilatus you'd jump out the tower window after a few months.
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Originally posted by Jetjock View PostAnyone who joins the military and expects nights/weekends off as a matter of course can bugger right off.
A good start would be to pay people a decent wage to stay, then staff mission critical sections like ATC adequately so such working hours are spread around fairly. Maybe equip the Air Corps a bit better and challenge people. If the highlight of your day was repeatedly saying "Cleared touch and go" to circuit bashing Pilatus you'd jump out the tower window after a few months.
Absolutely but this is the new DF when double and triple jobbing (as well as personal admin, overseas, courses, leave, resting off, duties etc etc).
If the shifts end up as 24 on/24 off for an extended period of time it isn't going to help retention
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Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View PostThe Mil screen out in Dub ATC was a joke and regarded as so by the civvie ATC, who could see everything that was going on, anyway, apart from a few isolated spots blanked by hills. It was a sub run for Mil ATC types.
I may have posted this link to the remote tower trials before:
Ireland - https://youtu.be/bDwzE4ISQU8
Netherlands - https://youtu.be/C1vza1BqgbQ
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Internal Politics /empire building/ protection of status has always played a part in ATC in Baldonnel. There were several individuals in ATC who considered themselves as "special ones" and earned the derision of both officers and enlisted ranks. Some of them were excellent, very switched on, good at their trade and very good at all round cooperation across ranks....others, well, they didn't have such a good reputation. When the Casas came into service and the need for backseaters arose, ATC seized this new role with a vengeance, which led to very pointy rows, up and down the rank scale and across the various little empires about who should do what and whom was in charge of whom. It all got very testy and the turnover rate of back seaters got comical in short order.
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RAF Lossiemouth is to trial it
RAAF Amberley
https://www.australiandefence.com.au/defence/air/remote-air-control-tower-showcased-at-raaf-amberleyKongsberg Defence Australia, with the support of Indra Australia, is currently showcasing its Remote Towers solution at RAAF Amberley.
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According to a press release published by Saab, the firm has signed a contract with the UK’s Royal Navy to provide a Digital Tower solution at Air Station Culdrose´s satellite airfield at Predannack. Following a competitive procurement, the Royal Navy has become the fourth UK customer to select Saab’s Digital Towers as part of a framework contract. The technology, which enables air traffic services to be conducted remotely, will also enhance the controllers’ situational awareness, through video, automatic tracking, graphic overlays, and enhanced safety tools.
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