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Thread: Rescue 116

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Not sure printing the final conversations really helps anything, though I'm surprised that the Stack (having a Lighthouse) wasn't in their system.

  2. #152
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Not sure printing the final conversations really helps anything, though I'm surprised that the Stack (having a Lighthouse) wasn't in their system.
    Evidence (unfortunately) and if it was to prevent another accident

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Evidence (unfortunately) and if it was to prevent another accident
    I'm not debating the value in terms of preventing another accident, I just meant in terms of the Papers/sites when there's still two crew missing. Would they be using nav data supplied by the State or a third party?

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    I'm not debating the value in terms of preventing another accident, I just meant in terms of the Papers/sites when there's still two crew missing. Would they be using nav data supplied by the State or a third party?
    The route guide to Blacksod which they were following was CHC Ireland's.

    The various navaids/safety equipment use various sources

  5. #155
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    That route giude took them through the airspace at blackrock at under 300ft?
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  7. #156
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    R116 had no comms with R118 directly? Am I reading this right?
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  9. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    That route giude took them through the airspace at blackrock at under 300ft?
    On the map it says "282" very close to Blackrock, is that the start of the approach (28 feet under the top of the light house)?

  10. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    R116 had no comms with R118 directly? Am I reading this right?
    ".... made extensive attempts .... Two-way communications were briefly established ...."

  11. #159
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    Please Read the report. WHile the avionics does indicate the spot height, it did not indicate the correct terrain. The FLIR Operator warned the pilot before impact. Avionics gave the pilot an incorrect situational awareness.
    Honeywell provided the specific avionics, which has geographic data provided by a third party (Unnamed in the report).
    The Secondary, and to me more concerning aspect to the interim report was the apparent failure of the crew PLB due to the storage of the PLB antennae on Mk 44 Crewmans lifejacket.
    ICAO Annex 13 requires that survival aspects of an aviation accident are considered as part of the Investigation. At this preliminary stage, the Investigation has not gathered all of the evidence and information required to deal with this matter comprehensively. However, the Investigation identified a matter of concern relating to the installation of the locator beacons in the lifejackets worn by the pilots. The installation appeared to be in accordance with a picture contained in a Service Bulletin issued by the lifejacket manufacturer showing the GPS antenna in the same pouch as the beacon. However, the beacon manufacturerís publications recommend a minimum separation between beacon and GPS antenna of 30 centimetres (cm). In order to ensure that locator beacons in Mk 44 lifejackets function as expected a Safety Recommendation is issued to the manufacturer of the lifejacket
    Should this be later identified as a failure, it could have serious consequences worldwide for the manufacturer. One could speculate that their failure to operate led to the loss of at least 1, if not 3 of the crew of R116.
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  12. #160
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmitŪ View Post
    Please Read the report. WHile the avionics does indicate the spot height, it did not indicate the correct terrain. The FLIR Operator warned the pilot before impact. Avionics gave the pilot an incorrect situational awareness.
    Honeywell provided the specific avionics, which has geographic data provided by a third party (Unnamed in the report).
    The Secondary, and to me more concerning aspect to the interim report was the apparent failure of the crew PLB due to the storage of the PLB antennae on Mk 44 Crewmans lifejacket.

    Should this be later identified as a failure, it could have serious consequences worldwide for the manufacturer. One could speculate that their failure to operate led to the loss of at least 1, if not 3 of the crew of R116.
    To use the holes in the cheese analogy

    The crash shouldn't have happened in the first place, therefore the crew wouldn't have ended up in the water.

    To me this preliminary report asks questions to the approach

  13. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    To use the holes in the cheese analogy

    The crash shouldn't have happened in the first place, therefore the crew wouldn't have ended up in the water.

    To me this preliminary report asks questions to the approach
    To me this "preliminary" report is notifying the wider aviation community that the aircraft did not have an engineering issue that requires urgent grounding of other aircraft, but has identified some safety issues that do require attention.

    So lets just leave the investigation to the professionals and wait for the final report.
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  15. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTU View Post
    To me this "preliminary" report is notifying the wider aviation community that the aircraft did not have an engineering issue that requires urgent grounding of other aircraft, but has identified some safety issues that do require attention.

    So lets just leave the investigation to the professionals and wait for the final report.
    Plus note the 2 safety recommendations that have been issued - 1 to the aircraft operator

  16. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Plus note the 2 safety recommendations that have been issued - 1 to the aircraft operator
    And the other to a manafacturer of safety equipment, and by putting it in a publicly available report they have also notified other organisations of these issues, who can then see if their equipment is up to standard. There are other things mentioned in this report other then the two recommondations that could also be key to the investigation, which is no where near finished.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed! I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  18. #164
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    I guess there are still a lot of questions to be considered ....

    Is it not best to let the official process follow its course

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  20. #165
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    Primetime is covering the Crash tonight, reporting that during testing of the 92's the lack of island was flagged 4 years ago.
    On now.

  21. #166
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Prime time are covering safety failings in CHC Ireland tonight

  22. #167
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    the IAA's charts were found to be seriously wanting. When you buy an IAA chart, they always ask you to review the chart and point out an errors, such as a failure to include a wind farm and so on. Now, you would have to fly the entire island to find all the faults unless you consult literally every pilot of every aircraft type on the island and that's not practical, so you depend on the OS, who drew up the original, to be accurate........apart from all that, why were the crew at 282 feet, facing inland, when the same quadrant on the chart has the mountains of Achill exceed 2000 feet. Normal instrument flight practise is to stay at least a thousand feet above the highest land mass or obstacle in the given quadrant at all times, unless you are actually "in" an approach procedure, ie conducting an ILS or VOR or NDB approach. To me, they appear to have believed that they were safely "in" the approach procedure but didn't grasp that they were too low and therefore not protected from terrain. It makes no sense to me to instigate an approach at only 282 feet, as it leaves little room for error.

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  24. #168
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  26. #169
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  28. #170
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    Given that the Minister has decided to instigate an independant review of Ireland's SAR services, can one assume he has had eyes on the accident report, and it does not inspire confidence in the current situation?

    Shane Ross announces details of independent review into search and rescue operations

    Monday, May 21, 2018 - 11:31 AM

    A review into search and rescue operations following the Coast Guard Rescue 116 crash will look at any gaps or lack of clarity in the roles, processes, training and resources available.

    The Minister for Transport has announced details of the independent review that will take place following the helicopter crash off Blackrock Island in Mayo last year, where four crew members lost their lives.

    It will be led by Professor Jules Kneepkens along with a team of international experts - who will also examine the practices and procedures in search and rescue oversight in place and make recommendations to address the issues.
    On March 14 last year a Coastguard chopper went down at Blackrock Island.
    The bodies of Captain Dara Fitzpatrick and Captain Mark Duffy were recovered Ė however their colleagues Paul Ormsby and Ciaran Smith remain lost at sea.

    The Air Accident Investigation Unit is still looking into the cause of the crash Ė but an interim report more than two months ago recommended a thorough review of the Stateís search and rescue aviation operations.
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...ns-844151.html
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  29. #171
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmitŪ View Post
    Given that the Minister has decided to instigate an independant review of Ireland's SAR services, can one assume he has had eyes on the accident report, and it does not inspire confidence in the current situation?
    Itís a safety recommendation from the interim statement from the AAIU
    http://www.aaiu.ie/sites/default/fil...20180313_2.pdf


    There are 2 others (1 for Sikorsky and 1 for CHC Ireland)
    Last edited by DeV; 24th May 2018 at 22:57.

  30. #172
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    Why wait till now?
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  31. #173
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmitŪ View Post
    Why wait till now?
    Who knows but 2 months to start it probably isnít too bad for any Department
    Last edited by DeV; 24th May 2018 at 23:00.

  32. #174
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    Given that the Minister has decided to instigate an independant review of Ireland's SAR services, can one assume he has had eyes on the accident report, and it does not inspire confidence in the current situation?
    Whoa!!!

    Back up the truck !

    Its CHC that need looking at as they are the contractors. Unless there is an implied responsibility by the state in the operation of the service out side the contract the issue lies with CHC. Hence the service was outsourced in the first place.

    Other wise the state will end up providing the service directly...and as we know thats another world of shit we don't need to revisit.
    Time for another break I think......

  33. #175
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    WHy not announce it on receiving the interim report?
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