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  1. #1
    Brigadier General
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    Contracted Heli Training

    Would there be any merit in the AC considering a similiar type of arrangement which would free up experienced pilots & techs to ensure the operational fleet is so.

    http://helihub.com/2017/03/17/motorf...th-jetrangers/

  2. #2
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Except it would it would be used as an excuse to get rid of the EC135s and more importantly the pilots and techs

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Except it would it would be used as an excuse to get rid of the EC135s and more importantly the pilots and techs
    The article states the Germans found EC135 "to have been too complex for ab initio pilots", surely their experience isn't unique? With a grand fleet of two, it would seem sensible to try and preserve them - and they do have a role beyond training as any of the ARW ex videos illustrate.

    From memory the AC does send trainees abroad to complete sim training before tackling the EC135.

  4. #4
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    The EC135 was required by the Air Corps after a serious incident involving the GASU heli (Then a twin engine squirrel), when pilot training was considered a contributing factor. One of the main recommendations was that the Air Corps pilots needed other similar type to train on when not flying the operational GASU aircraft. (At the time AC pilot kept current on the GASU aircraft only when it was available, and otherwise flew the Gazelle or Alouette, (Both single engined) when the only other twin engined aircraft in use was the Dauphin, then wholly committed to SAR duties.
    When GASU switched to the EC135, it followed that the AC would also purchase the type for training. While the engines are different, from the front office, both types are identical.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  6. #5
    C/S EUFighter's Avatar
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    Ich habe gar nicht gehört das die EC135 zu komplex war. Die heeresflieger sind sehr zu Frieden mit die EC135.

    Sorry, the German Army and Navy are more than happy with the EC135. It has been the main training helicopter for years. The BO105 were being used for attack helicopter training, to prepare pilots for the Tiger.

    Contracts with service providers are normal as gap fillers, where the Heeresflieger does not have enough capacity .
    Last edited by EUFighter; 19th March 2017 at 02:18.

  7. #6
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    The article states the Germans found EC135 "to have been too complex for ab initio pilots", surely their experience isn't unique?
    it would appear it is unique

    With a grand fleet of two, it would seem sensible to try and preserve them - and they do have a role beyond training as any of the ARW ex videos illustrate.
    You'd think so

    From memory the AC does send trainees abroad to complete sim training before tackling the EC135.
    which would be normal because flight hours are expensive and they don't have their own sim

  8. #7
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    The nearest RAF unit equivalent to the Ac is 84 Sqn which is an SAR unit based in Cyprus doing ATCA/ATCP ops with Griffins which are leased in with maintenance supplied by contractors with RAF flight and mgt crews. We are told of chronic shortages of personnel in the AC which act as a glass ceiling to ops as recently unfolded.
    There is little point in acquiring aircraft that cannot be used when needed.
    Is it time to sub out some training and maintenance aspects to allow usable resources to be concentrated on ops.

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  10. #8
    Corporal irishrgr's Avatar
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    Over here the majority of our rotary wing instruction is contracted out as is a lot of the maintenance. Most of the FI's are retired or exer's contracted on as civvie instructors, and incidentally so are the majority of the SERE School staff, nearly 90% contract.

    US Initial Entry Rotary Wing (IERW) training is transitioning to the EC 145 (or Lakota as the Army calls it). The overwhelming majority of the pilots I know describe this as a giant leap backwards due to the complexity of the aircraft. Most of them make a very strong case for IERW to continue in the Bell Jet Ranger ( or the TH-67 Creek) as a means to learning the basics in a simple aircraft before graduating to more complex machines. As a non-pilot that makes sense to me, but the Army has decided otherwise.

    Either way, at Ft. Rucker, the overwhelming majority of the flight, maintenance and maintenance training is contracted out. It preserves Army pilots for Army flying and can be expanded or contracted as needs arise. And, yes, it's a 24/7 contract.

    I submit the IAC could do same for the reasons above, keep IAC pilots flying missions, techs keeping operational birds in the air and have the civvies do the training. More cost effective & better use of personnel.
    A

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