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  1. #1
    Captain Jetjock's Avatar
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    Shannon & US Military Aircraft

    Posted in Army section as this is an Irish army manned location during aircraft visits.

    On Tuesday night Shannon had another embarrassing security breach as two overnighting US Navy 737's were visited by graffiti artists and daubed with slogans. (Two offenders , one former DF officer and well known anti war noise maker)

    The aircraft were parked on a designated section of disused runway, with flood lighting and fencing. The site was manned(portacabins)by Irish Army personnel. The offenders still managed proceed with a repaint under their noses. Someone is having their interpretation of sentry/security detail redefined I'd imagine.

    Not a first time security breach at Shannon-Daly and Wallace had to call the tower by phone to tell them they were on the runway! A bit of a national embarrassment really.

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    DF personnel are in Shannon as an ATCP operation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    Posted in Army section as this is an Irish army manned location during aircraft visits.

    On Tuesday night Shannon had another embarrassing security breach as two overnighting US Navy 737's were visited by graffiti artists and daubed with slogans. (Two offenders , one former DF officer and well known anti war noise maker)

    The aircraft were parked on a designated section of disused runway, with flood lighting and fencing. The site was manned(portacabins)by Irish Army personnel. The offenders still managed proceed with a repaint under their noses. Someone is having their interpretation of sentry/security detail redefined I'd imagine.

    Not a first time security breach at Shannon-Daly and Wallace had to call the tower by phone to tell them they were on the runway! A bit of a national embarrassment really.
    National embarrassment but aiding several wars in the Middle East is okay. Hmmm

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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibenji View Post
    National embarrassment but aiding several wars in the Middle East is okay. Hmmm
    Are those wars going to stop if the US transits through another country instead of here?
    I'm sure at least some of our exports end up being used in military conflict as well, should we stop producing them?

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  8. #5
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibenji View Post
    National embarrassment but aiding several wars in the Middle East is okay. Hmmm
    Why you only care about wars that the US is involved with?

    As an aside do you know how the shinnerbots work? Do they pay ogra members phone bills or what?
    Last edited by The real Jack; 27th April 2017 at 17:15.
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  10. #6
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    Why you only care about wars that the US is involved with?

    As an aside do you know how the shinnerbots work? Do they pay ogra members phone bills or what?
    Especially when they have a UN mandate

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    just like that tanker theft in Dundalk...

  12. #8
    C/S CTU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    DF personnel are in Shannon as an ATCP operation
    Which asks questions about the Gardai, the Airport Police and the Airport Authority who are ultimately responsible for security at the airport. Once was an embarrassment, but the amount of times this has now happened is bordering on the ridiculous.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed! I mean, annihilation’s bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  14. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    Why you only care about wars that the US is involved with?

    As an aside do you know how the shinnerbots work? Do they pay ogra members phone bills or what?
    The recent wars that the USA has been involved in have resulted in nothing but trouble for the world. Iraq, Afghanistan and aiding rebels in Syria has caused nothing but trouble for the world. It's a sad fact that some Muslim countries need dictators to keep some sort of law and order. Graffiti with red marker was not the worst thing to ever happen. Part of me feels that these trespassing despots should be made write it out one hundred times as punishment.

  15. #10
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibenji View Post
    The recent wars that the USA has been involved in have resulted in nothing but trouble for the world. Iraq, Afghanistan and aiding rebels in Syria has caused nothing but trouble for the world. It's a sad fact that some Muslim countries need dictators to keep some sort of law and order. Graffiti with red marker was not the worst thing to ever happen. Part of me feels that these trespassing despots should be made write it out one hundred times as punishment.
    So why aren't you protesting outside the Saudi embassy when they're causing a famine in Yemen on top of the slaughter? You're not protesting the Ukrainian or russian shelling of civilian areas in Ukraine or any other of the countless wars currently ongoing? No protest against Chechen concentration camps for gays or slaves in the middle East? No they're not the low hanging fruit to grab attention, ye don't bother turning in paedos in the SF/IRA ranks either.
    Last edited by The real Jack; 28th April 2017 at 00:06.
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  16. #11
    Captain Jetjock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTU View Post
    Which asks questions about the Gardai, the Airport Police and the Airport Authority who are ultimately responsible for security at the airport. Once was an embarrassment, but the amount of times this has now happened is bordering on the ridiculous.
    Absolutely. There is a lot of ground to cover before you get anywhere near the "secure" parking area. There is also a lot of perimeter fence to patrol with a distinct lack of technology employed.

    As for the Portacabin dwellers....You had one job...not the DF's finest moment.

  17. #12
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post

    As for the Portacabin dwellers....You had one job...not the DF's finest moment.
    Which as I said is ATCP and therefore the aircraft are legally not what the DF are protecting

  18. #13
    Captain Jetjock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Which as I said is ATCP and therefore the aircraft are legally not what the DF are protecting
    ATCP or ATCA? Not always a Garda vehicle present.

    Call it what you like anyway there is a very small specific section of tarmac, fenced and with bi-directional flood lights on which the DF/Gardai provide security. Some gobshites managed to paint slogans on foreign military aircraft on this small section of tarmac right under their noses. Nobody comes out of this smelling of roses.
    Last edited by Jetjock; 28th April 2017 at 08:46.

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  20. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    ATCP or ATCA? Not always a Garda vehicle present.

    Call it what you like anyway there is a very small specific section of tarmac, fenced and with bi-directional flood lights on which the DF/Gardai provide security. Some gobshites managed to paint slogans on foreign military aircraft on this small section of tarmac right under their noses. Nobody comes out of this smelling of roses.
    Gotta say I agree. At a time when the media are making hay with security (or lack of) arrangements at Dublin Airport, this incident makes those responsible for airport security look like complete plonkers
    Last edited by Truck Driver; 30th April 2017 at 09:29.
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  22. #15
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    These are the facts.

    1/ Two protestors(one with previous military experience) breached the airport perimeter. Who's responsible?: APO's
    2/ Said protestors cover the significant distance from the perimeter to the security area to utilising the cover of darkness and overgrown grass(both were soaked when detained) Responsible?: APO's and Airport management.

    3/ Said protestors observe the DF patrol and infiltrate to aircraft A when the patrol was down by aircraft B ( a nice distance).Patrol IMMEDIATELY reacts and issue challenge when infiltrators spotted. Protestor A offers violence to DF patrol .Minimum force used to flatten protestor. Both protestors detained by DF. Responsible?: AGS who were inside the portacabin(as usual) and had to be sent for.AGS are responsible for the aircraft and should be the first line.DF are only there in support.But yet again we caught the infiltrators.
    Moral.
    1/ Don't believe everything the papers portray.
    2/ AGS need to get off their arse and do their job properly.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  23. #16
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    ATCP or ATCA? Not always a Garda vehicle present.

    Call it what you like anyway there is a very small specific section of tarmac, fenced and with bi-directional flood lights on which the DF/Gardai provide security. Some gobshites managed to paint slogans on foreign military aircraft on this small section of tarmac right under their noses. Nobody comes out of this smelling of roses.
    ATCA is completely different.

    There doesn't have to be a Garda vehicle present to have a Garda there but there does need to be one there

  24. #17
    Captain Jetjock's Avatar
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    A couple of points.

    My observations are not from reading a newspaper.

    The protester with previous military experience is 70 years old.

    Tall grass at an airport is standard practice as a bird control technique.

    The aircraft were parked nose to tail. Not really "a good distance". As close together as two 737's would normally be in such a parking configuration. Probably 100m from nose of aircraft A to tail aircraft B.

    Well done on the apprehension to those involved. However from the fence in there are failings for all agencies involved and it really needs to stop at this point. If the airport is seen as an easy target by tree huggers there are much more determined fanatics out there who could do real harm.
    Last edited by Jetjock; 28th April 2017 at 11:37.

  25. #18
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    JJ have you done security duty out at the airport.Yes or no?
    Yes: I will accept your criticism.
    No: then you don't know what you are talking about and are being a hurler on the ditch.

    There were faults and failings.NONE.I say again, NONE of which are the DF's.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  26. #19
    Captain Jetjock's Avatar
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    Hi Apod, I am definitely in category B and don't envy those in category A who have to endure months of boredom before the next gobshite arrives. However I am more than familiar with the location.

    If it's your opinion that there is not even a minor DF slip up when two protesters manage to gain access to parked foreign military aircraft under their noses in a secure location, I will happily bow to your first hand experience.

  27. #20
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    As I said JJ, the DF are not there to protect the aircraft, the airport or anything else.

    That is not their role or job

  28. #21
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    Hi Apod, I am definitely in category B and don't envy those in category A who have to endure months of boredom before the next gobshite arrives. However I am more than familiar with the location.

    If it's your opinion that there is not even a minor DF slip up when two protesters manage to gain access to parked foreign military aircraft under their noses in a secure location, I will happily bow to your first hand experience.
    The only possible slip up is manning levels.Which is function of management.More bodies deployed would mean more "eyes on" at any one time.However as I said before the job of watching the aircraft is the Gardai's. The slip up is theirs.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  30. #22
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    From my own viewpoint, the failing lies with APO, and to a certain extent the DAA. The fenceline should be impregnable to everythng but the smallest rodent. That is international practice. If you start walking airside on any international airport then the security status of the airport wil be downgraded and airlines will pull out, sharpish. There was an incursion some years ago in ORK, which became infamous with the attempts to stop the trespasser gaining many hits on youtube etc. Cork Airport APO and management learnt from it, and improved the fencing to the extent you can literally not get a tank airside any more without breaking down a gate. People loitering at the fence at any part of the field quickly get a visit from one of the many APO vehicles patrolling the perimeter. It has made the airport a no-go zone for aircraft spotters, which is a small price to pay for airfield security.
    This incident is only a few short months since pink shirt builder TD and his concubine climbed the fence on the northern side and made their way to security personell on the field in SNN. Ths should have been a major wake up call for the DAA that the current security was insufficient for the threat of incursion.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  32. #23
    Captain Jetjock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    The only possible slip up is manning levels.Which is function of management.More bodies deployed would mean more "eyes on" at any one time.However as I said before the job of watching the aircraft is the Gardai's. The slip up is theirs.
    Couldn't agree more with the first part and happy to take your word on the latter without knowing the finer details.

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  34. #24
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    Grabbing a 71 yo cant have been a big gig.
    Last edited by danno; 29th April 2017 at 11:23. Reason: accuracy

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  36. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Grabbing a 70yo cant have been a big gig.
    The key thing would be as apod said doing so with the minimum of force, otherwise he would be a maryter, and lieut Gruber would be only too happy to pontificate about beibg tortured at lenght.
    Last edited by paul g; 29th April 2017 at 08:25.

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