"Germany Is Quietly Building a European Army Under Its Command"

[Boreas]

Article in FP that may be of interest.

Every few years, the idea of an EU army finds its way back into the news, causing a kerfuffle. The concept is both fantasy and bogeyman: For every federalist in Brussels who thinks a common defense force is what Europe needs to boost its standing in the world, there are those in London and elsewhere who recoil at the notion of a potential NATO rival.

But this year, far from the headlines, Germany and two of its European allies, the Czech Republic and Romania, quietly took a radical step down a path toward something that looks like an EU army while avoiding the messy politics associated with it: They announced the integration of their armed forces.

Romania’s entire military won’t join the Bundeswehr, nor will the Czech armed forces become a mere German subdivision. But in the next several months each country will integrate one brigade into the German armed forces: Romania’s 81st Mechanized Brigade will join the Bundeswehr’s Rapid Response Forces Division, while the Czech 4th Rapid Deployment Brigade, which has served in Afghanistan and Kosovo and is considered the Czech Army’s spearhead force, will become part of the Germans’ 10th Armored Division. In doing so, they’ll follow in the footsteps of two Dutch brigades, one of which has already joined the Bundeswehr’s Rapid Response Forces Division and another that has been integrated into the Bundeswehr’s 1st Armored Division. According to Carlo Masala, a professor of international politics at the University of the Bundeswehr in Munich, “The German government is showing that it’s willing to proceed with European military integration” — even if others on the continent aren’t yet.

Seems to be a bit overblown to me, this kind of thing has been happening for a while from what I can tell.

Could this be something of interest to the Defence Forces? Could be a way to argue for new equipment and new roles maybe.

[TangoSierra]

Meh. It's NATO rapid response.

[Connaught Stranger]

Romanian military are getting involved with more NATO Exercises but thats far from being integrated into the Bundswehr, or a European army under the control of Germany.
We have now US military forces established in Romania for the last 6 or 7 years as well as an US Anti-missile battery, we have Canadian Airforce deployed near Turda about 3 hours drive from where I live as well.

North-West Romania shares a border with the Ukaraine the North-East with Moldova areas of interest to Tzar Putin, Moldova is under a very pro-Russian leader,
Hungary on the Western border is under another twat with pro-Russian sentiments.

Connaught Ranger.

This statement about a EU army under the control of Germany is crap for the want of a better word

[Sparky42]

This statement about a EU army under the control of Germany is crap for the want of a better word

Are you surprised, the "German superarmy" is brought out all the time, it's still full of Crap.

[DeV]

On the plus side they are looking at EUBG deployments being EU funded (not just by the contributing nations) - more likely to deploy

[barrybadrinah]

I like Peter Hitchens view on it all... The EU was just an extension of Germany's reach for supremacy

[barrybadrinah]

Peter Hitchens has a good view on this sort of thing. I've really enjoyed reading up on his views surrounding the EU since BREXIT has kicked in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CNeDtZmpjU

[Connaught Stranger]

I like Peter Hitchens view on it all... The EU was just an extension of Germany's reach for supremacy

Rubbish, factually Germany pays the biggest tax contribution in the E.U. per citizen, out of which, a large part goes to bail out places like Greece, just because they
pay a larger contribution is no evidence they want to control Europe.

[barrybadrinah]

Yeah, and? Debt is a fantastic asset and control vector if utilised correctly. Just look at China.

[Connaught Stranger]

Yeah, and? Debt is a fantastic asset and control vector if utilised correctly. Just look at China.

Comparing Communist China to the EU is also a FAIL!

[barrybadrinah]

Comparing Communist China to the EU is also a FAIL!

Cheers for the 2009 meme reference, did you accidentally the whole thing at the same time? It's not a fail, China is communist in name only, I'd have thought that was fairly obvious myself.

[hptmurphy]

Peter Hitchens has a good view on this sort of thing. I've really enjoyed reading up on his views surrounding the EU since BREXIT has kicked in.

Germany has been looking at the writing on the wall for some time where the US wants NATO to be self sustaining and where the UK moves away from European commitments after BREXIT and wants a pan european force independent of the UK and the USA.

They have also reason to be concerned as iy would seem that Trump is far more pro Putin than he is pro German and as a result Germany , the Baltic States and those sharing borders with Russia need an alliance in what ever form it takes to provide a show of strength independent to whatever side of the fence Trump falls on.

And if its led by Germany, so what!

[ropebag]

Germany has been looking at the writing on the wall for some time where the US wants NATO to be self sustaining...

Don't get captured by the Trump prism - Trump is just an idiot who takes the view of whatever arse sat on him last, you should be far more concerned about why the US has, for 20 years and more, become less and less enamoured of NATO.

What's amusing is that with Russia prowling along the eastern European border while the US disengages, it's quite possible that EU defence spending will have to increase beyond the level that would have satisfied the US in the first place.

Of course, if you want to put your faith in Germany with its 1.2% GDP defence budget while trying desperately trying to sell half of its A400M purchase on to someone, anyone, then go ahead....

[barrybadrinah]

Have you been underneath an A400M though on initial/final appraoch? Sounds like a banshee in the night. I'd be selling them too. haunting bastards.

[ropebag]

Have you been underneath an A400M though on initial/final appraoch? Sounds like a banshee in the night. I'd be selling them too. haunting bastards.

i've flown in them, quite a few times actually...

the A400M is the only large transport aircraft on the market - nothing else currently, or projected to be on sale will take the bulk of modern/future military equipment. if Germany is looking to unload a large proportion of its order, then by definition its looking to reduce its ability to support opererations outside of Germany.

two other issues also rear their ugly heads - firstly that a launch customer/producer trying to offload a product does not inspire confidence, and so other EU nations thinking about making an A400M purchace (which would help Ireland access heavy airlift) will probably decide not to bother.

the second issue - possibly even more important in the long term - is that its another example of Germany stiffing its project partners, which makes future European projects much less likely, and therefore makes European countries more dependant on US purchases. Germany has a history of being a partner in bi/multi-lateral projects and intially saying they will make a large order, this secures a large workshare (which secures German jobs), and then once the project is underway and its all too late to change anything, Germany starts reducing its order. A400M, Typhoon, Alpha Jet, C-160, Tornado...

[barrybadrinah]

Aye well the 400 did a flyover recently for an RAeS meeting so I got a full view of it, great sight.

What came out from the A400M crash in Spain? Could google it but I'd rather get a concise and witty answer here on IMO.

[hptmurphy]

Don't get captured by the Trump prism - Trump is just an idiot who takes the view of whatever arse sat on him last, you should be far more concerned about why the US has, for 20 years and more, become less and less enamoured of NATO.

I've been watching the Germans and some of the Eastern Europeans with some interest since the Ukraine / Crimea thing, well before Trump surfaced.

NATO is a toothless tiger to a certain degree given the default in payments by some of its members so the Germans are looking at something beyond it, a smaller model with a more focused goal. Its only a matter of time before the US pulls the plug on their involvement I reckon.

[sofa]

I've been watching the Germans and some of the Eastern Europeans with some interest since the Ukraine / Crimea thing, well before Trump surfaced.

NATO is a toothless tiger to a certain degree given the default in payments by some of its members so the Germans are looking at something beyond it, a smaller model with a more focused goal. Its only a matter of time before the US pulls the plug on their involvement I reckon.

The crisis in the Balkans showed up how unwilling Europe is to do anything on it's own door step without the Americans.

[hptmurphy]

The crisis in the Balkans showed up how unwilling Europe is to do anything on it's own door step without the Americans.

That was 10-15 years ago, try again, Trump won't even know here the balkans are.

[Sparky42]

Guess this can go here:

The EU will on Wednesday unveil a multimillion-euro Defense Fund, marking the first time that money from the bloc’s budget will be used to buy military equipment and on joint defense capabilities.

It represents a historic push by the EU into a new phase of cooperation on military and security policy, including on procurement of weapons and new technologies. And it comes at a time when U.S. President Donald Trump has raised doubts about his commitment to NATO’s principle of collective defense, prompting European leaders, including German Chancellor Angela Merkel, to warn that the EU can no longer rely on its superpower ally.

While there is still much skepticism about the defense plan — given the EU’s struggles to better integrate the defense programs and capabilities of individual countries — supporters of closer military cooperation praised the fund as a crucial first step.

“The fact the Commission together with member states are ready to move forward, to have real money and real resources is very positive,” said Urmas Paet, a former Estonian foreign minister and now member of the European Parliament. “It is clearly, of course, a concrete signal.”

Paet, an avid proponent of integration who helped draft the Parliament’s plans in favor of stronger European defense, said the plans “sounds like they’re on the right track, but we don’t yet know all the details. As we all know, there is still resistance to increased military spending in Europe.”

The new fund will be unveiled on Wednesday morning by EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini and European Commission Vice President Jyrki Katainen as part of a broader effort by Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker to move ahead with a European Defense Action Plan.

Announcing that plan in a speech in September 2016, Juncker said: “If Europe does not take care of its own security, nobody else will do it for us.”

The new fund has two parts, a senior EU official said: A “research window” to finance collaborative development of defense technologies such as electronics, encrypted software or robotics, for which the Commission has already proposed €25 million in the 2017 EU budget; and a “capability window” which would allow EU countries to share the cost of new military hardware, such as drones or helicopters.

Officials said the annual allocation for the first component could grow to €90 million through 2020. After that, the Commission plans to propose a dedicated defense research program of €500 million per year.

When it comes to the capability window, the goal is to leverage about €5 billion per year in coordinated spending.

One senior EU diplomat said the EU’s ambitions would be judged more on its ability to coordinate security and defense policy and less on its ability to reform the eurozone.

“The real test is going to be on defense and not on the euro,” the diplomat said, noting that if a conflict were to develop in, say, the Balkans, the EU should have the capability to intervene without turning to London or Washington to take the lead.

This ability to put EU boots on the ground will depend heavily on decisions over the next few months on financing for existing EU battlegroups, comprised of approximately 1,500 soldiers, which have never been deployed, mainly because of funding disputes.

Until now, defense cooperation in Europe has existed mainly at the bilateral or regional level. According to a study by the European Parliament, there were nearly 400 ongoing military cooperation projects in Europe in early 2015.

Among the existing partnerships is a joint procurement program for ammunition for an anti-tank system used by Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, the Czech Republic and Poland.

Despite longstanding skepticism, EU diplomats are voicing fresh optimism given increased support from France, Germany, Italy and Spain. Brexit has also added to the sense of momentum, as the U.K. has traditionally resisted any perceived competition for NATO.

In the private sector, the European defense industry also seems to be sensing a shift.

“The big difference compared to the past is that now EU money will be spent on defense,” said Burkard Schmitt, defense and security director at Asd, the AeroSpace and Defence Industries Association of Europe, which represents many big players.

“This could make a difference in particular in the research phase where cooperation starts, but also in the development phase where research results must be taken forward toward real equipment and procurement,” Schmitt said.

Still, he warned that it “can only become a success if member states are fully engaged.”

Any chance of us making use of this program?

[TangoSierra]

My understanding is that they envisage member states being able to borrow money from the fund for capability development on a joint project an then repay it at favourable rates

[TangoSierra]

Still means that the Govt/ DoD have to allocate funding