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  1. #1
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    How did PDFORRA and RACO get on in the pay talks lads

    come on what was the word I cant wait for Ingrid Miley
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  2. #2
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like anything that will be given back will be taken away (and more) in higher pension contributions

  3. #3
    Lt General Bravo20's Avatar
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    I think they have been shafted by the unions inside the tent. They will have to pay a higher pension premium because of the accelerated pension i.e. it will take less than 40 years to earn a full pension. However this does not take into account that they have to leave earlier (particularly other ranks).

  4. #4
    CQMS Auldsod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    I think they have been shafted by the unions inside the tent. They will have to pay a higher pension premium because of the accelerated pension i.e. it will take less than 40 years to earn a full pension. However this does not take into account that they have to leave earlier (particularly other ranks).
    I'm not sure what the issue with them having leave earlier is though. An OR in their late thirties or forties is still highly employable. I might have to leave my job earlier in the morning due to redundancy etc...

  5. #5
    Lt General Bravo20's Avatar
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    I am talking about comparing soldiers to other public servants. Yes it takes other public servants 40 years to accrue a pension but they are allowed stay in their employment in order to do so whereas a soldier has to leave at 5, 12 and 21 years unless certain criteria are met, and then have to retire at 60 (or that might have been reduced to 50). The public service unions inside the tent have ****ed over the representative associations outside the tent.

  6. #6
    CQMS Auldsod's Avatar
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    Trade Unions are ruthless. They aren't going to care much for those with no representation or even their own future members.

    Military service is quite different to any other public service job (with exception of the Gardai perhaps) and keeping every soldier until 60 just isn't feasible for the proper functioning of the organisation.

    If a soldier has to leave after 5 or 12 years, can he/she not get another pensionable job? For a private sector worker to accrue the benefits of fast accrual receiving soldier, they would need to be placing a colossal amount of their own income in as AVCs. An amount far far far larger than the current pension levy.

    Maybe things aren't as good they were from a pension perspective for the PDF but it's still far in excess of what you'd get outside public service.

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  8. #7
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Army pension is a far cry from a civil/public service pension Auldsod
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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  10. #8
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    What age can they draw the Defence pension at?

  11. #9
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    What age can they draw the Defence pension at?
    Pre or post 94? No point in me answering this one though. One of the full timers can handle that one...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  12. #10
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    Pre or post 94? No point in me answering this one though. One of the full timers can handle that one...
    Both

  13. #11
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Three different pension schemes for enlisted in the DF.

    1/ Pre 94/Pre 06: Pension can be drawn down at 21 years service on leaving.But you must do 21 to get ANYTHING.You leave after 20 years 11 months you get nothing.

    2/ Post 06: Standard public service pension. You must serve 30 years to accrue full pension.You can leave after 5 years with five parts of the pension etc etc.The snag is that weather you do 5 ,16 or 30 yaers you must wait util you reach age 55 before it pays out.

    3/ Post 13: Same rules as 06 pension except it is career averaged by rank and contributory.You spend 19 years as a Pte and two as a Cpl and the bulk of your pension is going to be at the lower level.Brought in to stop people going on POTs course in their last few years just to get a higher pension.Qualifying criteria for the course amended to stop over forties going on the course also.

    Just a point.The so called Gold plated pension is nothing of the sort.The Pre 06 pension(21 year) was copied from the UK(22 year) as the original thinking was with hard soldiering your body would be knackered by that time and also it was supposed to incdentivise people to move on.The actual amounts paid out unless you are a SNCO are not very high.I can leave in a few months with a full pension but there is NO way I could live on it.

    I was listening to that prat Niall Boylan today stirring the anti public sector pot today an I honestly wanted to kill him.He used an example of someone on €70,000 a year in the public sector getting a pay rise(not true,pay restoration for the money we had to "contribute" to bail out the bankers and builders who ruined the economy) as fuel to stoke the fire.
    I know NO-ONE in my line of work getting that. FFS there are some soldiers on FIS just to feed their families!! People who are lambasting the public sector of course are most probably the same cnuts who sneered at us during the boom and said they wouldn't get out of bed for the money we were on.Same cnuts have the gall to jeer us now the lowest paid are due to get a paltry pay restoration?

    Hypocrites.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  15. #12
    Major General
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    Boylan is scum. Anyone tuning into him on a work vehicle radio is soon educated.

    In the same way you educate the recruit singing "ooh ah up the RA" in the mess.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  17. #13
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Three different pension schemes for enlisted in the DF.

    1/ Pre 94/Pre 06: Pension can be drawn down at 21 years service on leaving.But you must do 21 to get ANYTHING.You leave after 20 years 11 months you get nothing.

    2/ Post 06: Standard public service pension. You must serve 30 years to accrue full pension.You can leave after 5 years with five parts of the pension etc etc.The snag is that weather you do 5 ,16 or 30 yaers you must wait util you reach age 55 before it pays out.

    3/ Post 13: Same rules as 06 pension except it is career averaged by rank and contributory.You spend 19 years as a Pte and two as a Cpl and the bulk of your pension is going to be at the lower level.Brought in to stop people going on POTs course in their last few years just to get a higher pension.Qualifying criteria for the course amended to stop over forties going on the course also.

    Just a point.The so called Gold plated pension is nothing of the sort.The Pre 06 pension(21 year) was copied from the UK(22 year) as the original thinking was with hard soldiering your body would be knackered by that time and also it was supposed to incdentivise people to move on.The actual amounts paid out unless you are a SNCO are not very high.I can leave in a few months with a full pension but there is NO way I could live on it.

    I was listening to that prat Niall Boylan today stirring the anti public sector pot today an I honestly wanted to kill him.He used an example of someone on €70,000 a year in the public sector getting a pay rise(not true,pay restoration for the money we had to "contribute" to bail out the bankers and builders who ruined the economy) as fuel to stoke the fire.
    I know NO-ONE in my line of work getting that. FFS there are some soldiers on FIS just to feed their families!! People who are lambasting the public sector of course are most probably the same cnuts who sneered at us during the boom and said they wouldn't get out of bed for the money we were on.Same cnuts have the gall to jeer us now the lowest paid are due to get a paltry pay restoration?

    Hypocrites.
    I have to admit pensions (and PRSI) are 2 things I'll always hold my hand up and say I'm not 100% sure on.

    So compared to other public servants it's only pre 2006 that is different am I right?

    The main difference is a soldier possibly joined younger than many civil servants?

    Don't know many full Colonels?

  18. #14
    BQMS
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    I think I might end up being down money if this is implemented.

    ****ing hell.

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  20. #15
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Did PDFORRA crunch the numbers at all ?
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  21. #16
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Pdforra may have not done the sums, been hoodwinked or just had no choice as they were "outside the tent"
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  22. #17
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Yes, I know, but typically in situations like these a typical set of circumstances are issued by the bodies concerned

    e.g. Mick is a cpl with 5 years service heres how he was before, here's how he is after in terms of pension, grat , and cash in the door every week

    Georgina is a BSM with 31 years service.... you get the idea


    Aloysius is a tech 6 blah blah blah
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  24. #18
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    http://pdforra.ie/news/?p=1363

    http://pdforra.ie/news/?p=1368

    If PDFORRA recommend this it looks like they have sold every single member down the river

  25. #19
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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  26. #20
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  28. #21
    bosun
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    will the new agreement affect current pensioners ..ie will they lose or gain ...

  29. #22
    Sergeant Major
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    http://pdforra.ie/news/?p=1363

    http://pdforra.ie/news/?p=1368

    If PDFORRA recommend this it looks like they have sold every single member down the river
    Have a look at what PDFORRA submitted to the pay commission. Sixteen pages and not a single submission on pensions.

    RACO's submission ran into the hundreds and included a submission on pensions. ARCO also made a substantial submission ref pensions.

    All of these can be viewed on http://paycommission.gov.ie/submissi...r-submissions/ and http://paycommission.gov.ie/submissi...n-submissions/

    Representative organisations are only as good as the people the membership elect to represent them.

  30. #23
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    I think PDFORRA need to hire some union officials rather than exers they must have at the mo.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  31. #24
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    RACO aren't recommending acceptance

    PDFORRA are (if they receive a side deal delivering the same €500 increase in rent allowance that AGS, IPS and fire brigade got) - do the PDF, IPS and Fire brigade get a rent allowance?

  32. #25
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    RACO aren't recommending acceptance

    PDFORRA are (if they receive a side deal delivering the same €500 increase in rent allowance that AGS, IPS and fire brigade got) - do the PDF, IPS and Fire brigade get a rent allowance?
    PDF don't get a rent allowance.We are looking for it.If it goes through it will help offset the "contribution" we will be expected to make (on top of PRD as now)from next January to our superannuation.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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