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  1. #26
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Tin foil hat on, maybe it isn't the warships systems that are being targeted maybe it is the merchant vessels in proximity to them, tin foil hat off

    Has terrorism been investigated ?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Tin foil hat on, maybe it isn't the warships systems that are being targeted maybe it is the merchant vessels in proximity to them, tin foil hat off

    Has terrorism been investigated ?
    Given where this happened, I highly doubt terrorism and more just sheer bad luck/watch.

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  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Given where this happened, I highly doubt terrorism and more just sheer bad luck/watch.
    Indonesia (largest Muslim population in the world) isn't a million miles away

  5. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Indonesia (largest Muslim population in the world) isn't a million miles away
    What's the make up of the crew of the tanker? It's not like this was an attack like Cole or even the stuff we've seen from Yemen, this just looks like the same failures as the Fitzgerald or the two Cruisers that they ran aground.

  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    What's the make up of the crew of the tanker? It's not like this was an attack like Cole or even the stuff we've seen from Yemen, this just looks like the same failures as the Fitzgerald or the two Cruisers that they ran aground.
    Does it matter?

    Asymmetric threat?

    Not a suicide attack but very effective

    Of course it could be shear incompetence

  7. #31
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    The question of the day.

    "How does a state-of-the-art Navy destroyer -- equipped with multiple radar systems and communications gear with a full bridge watch -- not see, detect and evade a 30,000-ton slow-moving (10 knots) behemoth?"

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/20/as...ore/index.html

    "Oil tankers are huge, and it takes miles for them to change course ... When you're going into a congested channel, you're supposed to be very alert, track ships around you to a very meticulous degree." Carl Schuster, a former director of operations at the US Pacific Command's Joint Intelligence Center

    This is the 4th collision in the 7th Fleet in 8 months. Two Tico's and two AB's. A culture of arrogance, poor risk management, poor judgment, slipping training standards and seamanship are at the heart of this.

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  9. #32
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    Here is the message from the Chief of Naval Operations.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZdkMpe6pr8

  10. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Does it matter?

    Asymmetric threat?

    Not a suicide attack but very effective

    Of course it could be shear incompetence
    It matters if you are going to comment on Indonesia when their might not even be Indonesian crew members or even any "suspect groups" on the Tanker, more over these Commercial ships aren't exactly highly responsive or able to accelerate quickly, and even if they were surely the warship has the capability to respond and avoid it if seen. Which comes back to the question of competence or lack there of on the Destroyer.

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  12. #34
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    Ah yes, the terrorist crew on the merchant vessel did not deviate as the US warship turned into their path at speed in a crowded shipping lane..

    Of course.

    Its all clear now.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  14. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Ah yes, the terrorist crew on the merchant vessel did not deviate as the US warship turned into their path at speed in a crowded shipping lane..

    Of course.

    Its all clear now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    It matters if you are going to comment on Indonesia when their might not even be Indonesian crew members or even any "suspect groups" on the Tanker, more over these Commercial ships aren't exactly highly responsive or able to accelerate quickly, and even if they were surely the warship has the capability to respond and avoid it if seen. Which comes back to the question of competence or lack there of on the Destroyer.
    Probably in bad taste but it was an attempt at humour, tin foil hat talk !!

    You'd think so!!

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  16. #37
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    Saw a comment by a USN "official" that the McCain lost steering as she entered the Straits leading to the impact...

  17. #38
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    So the first report of the incidents is coming out, seems just significant Human Errors in the Watch Crews of the Destroyers:
    https://www.defensenews.com/breaking...igations-find/

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  19. #39
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    Jaysus. If A yacht did what Fitzgerald did the skipper would be relieved of his command. If a merchant vessel did it, questions would be asked about the crew competency.
    Serious questions need to be asked about USN competence. No one person seems to be at fault. The system has failed.
    As for McCain, The man in command wasn't in command, and his crew didn't know their jobs as well as they should for the conditions. System failure.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  21. #40
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    Well, if you follow the link, they (USN) nailed three Officers on another ship for allegedly tolerating illegal gambling and illegal possession of fireworks aboard ship, as well as frequent demotions or sackings of Commanders for failing to maintain standards in Office. I can think of quite a few Donners, of all ranks, who'd have been shown the door if the Don and the DF held them to the same standard the USN appear to hold.

  22. #41
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    The USN are an example of how these things should be addressed. They also are not afraid to publish punishments in public. As always prevention is better than cure. USN personnel by the looks of it are being rode hard and being put up wet.

  23. #42
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    Too much gym and PT, not enough seamanship and ROR.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  24. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmit� View Post
    Too much gym and PT, not enough seamanship and ROR.
    There seems to be several issues at play, seems that the 7th Fleet had been using a method the USN had authorised for signing off on equipment/training in order to keep the units at readiness levels without them actually meeting those levels, think an Admiral got fired for it and they had a safety stand down for that as well.

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