Brazil Air Force KC-390

[DeV]

Also if a military aircraft is AOG it may actually be saving money because there is no actual tasking for it (it is of course an opportunity cost). The civvy AOG is costing money by being AOG

[GoneToTheCanner]

true up to a point; airlines will always have a spare aircraft and can juggle the schedule. If your Military is doing the air ambulance thingy, then it needs priority for spares, as do the Garda helis, VIP aircraft, Casas for maritime...so who wins the juggling contest?

[paul g]

If they had bought every plane that ever came on a sales trip/trial the bluffwaffe would be very different capability wise. C27j spartan for one

[na grohmiti]

I remember Fokker had quite a following in the don when they were considering options for the MPA.

[GoneToTheCanner]

But they offered the old F27 first, which was a non runner because even airlines were putting F27s out to grass and they were offered F50s as a commonality with Aer Lingus but an actual F50 maritime had not been flown so it didn't happen. The G222, forerunner of the C27, was given a good lookover, like so many other aircraft, but, as ever, Finance shot it down. You could write a very big book on Air Corps might-have-beens...

[EUFighter]

Also if a military aircraft is AOG it may actually be saving money because there is no actual tasking for it (it is of course an opportunity cost). The civvy AOG is costing money by being AOG

If a plane is AOG it had a tasking, which it cannot perform. If there is no tasking and it is not available then it is covered by normal maintenance. The difference between civil and military AOG is one costs money while the other could cost lives.

[DeV]

If a plane is AOG it had a tasking, which it cannot perform. If there is no tasking and it is not available then it is covered by normal maintenance. The difference between civil and military AOG is one costs money while the other could cost lives.

Potentional cost lives yes but it depends on the tasking and sometimes there are other options

Also don't forget the civvy aircraft flights in civil aviation are generally schedules, for some AC flights they are on immediate notice

[GoneToTheCanner]

A civvy airline will simply substitute a standby aircraft or will hire in a replacement, because the last thing an airline wants is an aircraft sitting around idle. The Military has different priorities and will happily wait til doomsday to replace a part. An aero engine in the Don, that I encountered, spent seven years waiting for a basket of parts, to finish an overhaul, because the Don, by order, prioritised the Govt jet over all other aircraft. The engine (nicknamed the Shroud) was finally given access to funds to buy spares, but had to be rebuilt from the ground up, as all the seals had perished during it's wait for parts, so it cost twice as much in the end. The Gazelles spent more time on the ground than they did in the air because the Dauphins hogged most of the rotary funds. AOGs became a laughing stock in the Don when the Hs125, 238, actually flew to collect one of it's own AOG parts, despite it being allegedly awaiting parts. It's easy when it's other people's money. I'll bet you there are plenty of territorial fights for funds in each of the Don's departments over who gets the lion's shares: Casas vs Learjet vs Garda helis vs PC-9s and so on......there are very few flights that are on immediate notice; there's always some inkling that there's a Garda need or a VIP need or a Military need because there are so many planning elements that need to be considered. Even the current SAR is down to 45 minutes callout after hours if the crew are not at the station. Having aircraft ready to go is handy enough; Instantly leaping into the air is a myth, unless the crew are on cockpit or near-cockpit standby.

[DeV]

A civvy airline will simply substitute a standby aircraft or will hire in a replacement, because the last thing an airline wants is an aircraft sitting around idle. The Military has different priorities and will happily wait til doomsday to replace a part. An aero engine in the Don, that I encountered, spent seven years waiting for a basket of parts, to finish an overhaul, because the Don, by order, prioritised the Govt jet over all other aircraft. The engine (nicknamed the Shroud) was finally given access to funds to buy spares, but had to be rebuilt from the ground up, as all the seals had perished during it's wait for parts, so it cost twice as much in the end. The Gazelles spent more time on the ground than they did in the air because the Dauphins hogged most of the rotary funds. AOGs became a laughing stock in the Don when the Hs125, 238, actually flew to collect one of it's own AOG parts, despite it being allegedly awaiting parts. It's easy when it's other people's money. I'll bet you there are plenty of territorial fights for funds in each of the Don's departments over who gets the lion's shares: Casas vs Learjet vs Garda helis vs PC-9s and so on......there are very few flights that are on immediate notice; there's always some inkling that there's a Garda need or a VIP need or a Military need because there are so many planning elements that need to be considered. Even the current SAR is down to 45 minutes callout after hours if the crew are not at the station. Having aircraft ready to go is handy enough; Instantly leaping into the air is a myth, unless the crew are on cockpit or near-cockpit standby.

Hopefully a lot of that has gone with the PBH contracts.

In fairness, I didn't mean immediate (sitting in the cockpit) I meant on short notice (on call), like GASU and EAS.

Also AFAIK all SAR crews stay on loc

[Graylion]

The Brazilian Airforce ordered 28 KC390's for R$7bn, this work's out at €67.7m in real money. So about the same as a P70.
I would let our national airline (Ryanair) do the deal, I am sure the would get a better price than the DoD.

If you trust MOL further than you can throw a KC-390 I have some real estate in Florida that might interest you.

[EUFighter]

If you trust MOL further than you can throw a KC-390 I have some real estate in Florida that might interest you.

With a Golf course attached?

[Graylion]

I must say, I really like the idea of joining E-ATC. There is also VIP transports available if I see this correctly. I wonder whether one could participate without contributing assets - just use it as a rental pool? They might be glad enough to get Ireland to participate in anything that it could be possible.